| ▲ | petterroea 3 hours ago |
| sudo makes sense as a name, but it is worth noting that it hurts the original projects. Famously, the curl project receives tonnes of issues and support requests from people who run `curl` in PowerShell, not knowing it is an alias meant for convenience instead of the actual curl command[1]. Sudo for windows is already relatively old and doesn't seem to have been adopted much, but my prediction is that adoption would mean people would complain on forums that commands they found on the internet don't work. "Why wouldnt it? I have sudo?". Then people will have to explain to them that "No you do not have sudo, you have the windows version of sudo, which is not real sudo" and it will confuse. When it comes to tools, I strongly believe naming things similarly to concepts the user already knows is a disservice to the user. This isn't UX for your mom and pop, it is a tool to perform a job, and learners get confused when suddenly the same thing isn't actually the same thing at all. It is mislearning, and I would argue almost anyone who does mentoring has seen this in action. [1]: https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/08/19/removing-the-powershe... |
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| ▲ | steve1977 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > sudo makes sense as a name It doesn't though. There is no concept of a singular superuser like there is on UNIX. On Windows you have Administrator, but that is a role that can be assigned to any user. And Administrators do not have full power, that would be the SYSTEM user. Which you cannot switch to with Sudo for Windows however - but you can with the runas tool, which has been around for decades. |
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| ▲ | vbezhenar 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Minor nitpick, but there's not necessarily a single super user in UNIX. You can create multiple users with uid=0 and they all will be super users. | | |
| ▲ | steve1977 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | See sibling reply. The uid is what defines the user, the name is just a convenient alias. | | |
| ▲ | vbezhenar an hour ago | parent [-] | | Not really. You can have separate users with separate $HOME, separate passwords, separate groups, separate everything. User is user. Uid is uid. It's not the same. Uid is used for file permissions, that's true. | | |
| ▲ | ButlerianJihad 20 minutes ago | parent [-] | | If you try and set up "separate users" with "separate $HOME" that map to the same UID, all those "users" will "own" all those same files, and all processes started by one another. They would be able to kill processes, delete/modify/add files, impersonate one another. Because they are the same user. You would be unable to enforce quotas or privacy for any of them. Whatever they did on the system would be indistinguishable, because their process UIDs would be identical. Any files they created would be owned the same. Sure, set them up with unique lists of GIDs; it really doesn't matter in the end. I have no idea what you mean "User is user", but you are right: UID is not the same as a username. The username exists only in the passwd(5) database, and not in the kernel, like at all. The kernel has no idea what usernames are, and that's why they're irrelevant to user administration. |
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| ▲ | ButlerianJihad 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | But they all have the same UID, and are technically "the same user", even if you foolishly confer disparate usernames and passwords on them. When the system reverse-maps their UID it will display "root" because there is, ultimately, only one superuser on Unix. The situation is the same for any userid and any groupid. If you try creating three ordinary users with a UID of 3005, they will be, essentially, the same user. There is no way at the system level to differentiate them, after they have authenticated. Because their files and processes are owned by the same UID. This sharing of UIDs is generally discouraged and quite undesirable. It makes systems administration a real mess. |
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| ▲ | boomlinde 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Hopefully these aliases will be renamed to "Copilot-Sudo" and "Copilot-Curl" soon enough. |
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| ▲ | eddythompson80 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Uh clearly you don't PowerShell enough. It should be `Invoke-CopilotSudo` | |
| ▲ | dainank 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Maybe `wudo`? Windows Sudo! | | |
| ▲ | al_borland an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | If sudo stands for “superuser do”, and on Windows they call this user an “Administrator”. It stands to reason they should call it `audo`. Though this would be confusing, as people would pronounce it like “adieu”, which would make it sound like an alias for `logoff`. | | |
| ▲ | NekkoDroid an hour ago | parent [-] | | > It stands to reason they should call it `audo`. "Administrator" doesn't contain a "u". `addo`/`ado` both would make more sense and flows better off the tongue. | | |
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| ▲ | miroljub an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Or 'mudo', Microsoft sudo. With the added benefit of having appropriate meaning in some slavic languages. |
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| ▲ | Pay08 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Famously, the curl project receives tonnes of issues and support requests from people who run `curl` in PowerShell, not knowing it is an alias meant for convenience instead of the actual curl command[1]. Well, that explains a lot of the issues I was running into a few weeks ago... |
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| ▲ | tpoacher 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Indeed. This is the "Embrace" stage. |
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| ▲ | pletnes an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The curl alias in powershell is not compatible so it is an inconvenience. Must be one of the worst decisions to make it into windows, which is saying a lot. |
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| ▲ | NekkoDroid 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The worst part is that Windows does ship cURL as a binary at `C:\Windows\System32\curl.exe` (may be dependent on some optional feature, dunno). Nowadays it does invoke this for me on my system, but I don't remember if I did something for this to be the case. | |
| ▲ | al_borland an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Most of the aliases are for convenience when working in an interactive shell, which will generally be dealing with more basic functions of a command. For scripting it is best practice to use the full commandlet names. |
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| ▲ | justsomehnguy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >> Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.[0] Between that quote and "You can't fix stupid" I always choose the one about circus. *nix fanboys were totes fine with wget and ls being an aliases in PowerShell for years but when they found out what PS is coming to Linux they made a biggest stink. It didn't even mattered what 99.999% of the scripts which utilized that call were the simple 'get file' and nothing more. [0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rick_Cook#The_Wizardry_Compile... |
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| ▲ | jborean93 an hour ago | parent [-] | | > *nix fanboys were totes fine with wget and ls being an aliases in PowerShell for years but when they found out what PS is coming to Linux they made a biggest stink The curl and wget aliases don’t exist on the PowerShell 7 version which is the cross platform one. Only the old powershell.exe builtin to Windows has these aliases and it’s worse today because curl.exe is builtin and the curl alias takes priority when you run just curl. |
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| ▲ | petterroea 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I, for one, have had to explain to Juniors multiple times that WSL isn't Linux, and why it's no replacement for Linux. Happens almost every time they try to do anything more advanced than a WSL hello world, and it inevitably fails. I still let them try, because it beats me having to check "is wsl good now", and they learn much better from personal experience than someone more senior who uses arch btw just telling them "don't use windows" |
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| ▲ | StableAlkyne 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Interesting, I've been using it with zero issues (including performance) for several years now. Compiled stuff, ran scientific calculations, trained neural nets with GPU passthrough, even switched over a workload from an old Red hat box to WSL Alma. Only weirdness has been systemd can sometimes be quirky, and GUI stuff can be glitchy (which doesn't affect me much, because 99% of what I do is in the terminal) So, anecdotally it is perfectly adequate for workloads beyond a Hello World. What issues are you running into? | | |
| ▲ | petterroea 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Mostly its related to filesystem and permissions. Interface between windows and Linux, and mismatch in how the two work. Compute etc is fine! | | |
| ▲ | yread 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah its best to avoid using the windows filesystem for anything else but a source of cp -r |
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| ▲ | bezier-curve 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | WSL1 is not Linux because it is mapping system calls from the Linux kernel ABI to NT. That sounds like what you're describing. WSL2 is a Microsoft distro running in a VM that integrates into Windows. I use WSL2 every day and it has some annoying quirks with how their Wayland implementation behaves with DWM, but otherwise it's just a Linux environment. | |
| ▲ | DeathArrow 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Actually, WSL is pretty good for development. Of course, I wouldn't use WSL to run server software. |
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| ▲ | fainpul 37 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] |
| If you're on Windows, run this once: 'Remove-Alias curl, wget' >> $PROFILE
Now please stop whining about these stupid aliases. |
