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md224 3 hours ago

The most striking thing to me is that Ayer hopes there isn't life after death.

> My recent experiences have slightly weakened my conviction that my genuine death, which is due fairly soon, will be the end of me, though I continue to hope that it will be. (italics mine)

I do get the sense that many atheists not only reject God & the afterlife but actually don't want there to be a God or an afterlife. (I think Thomas Nagel wrote something along those lines.) I sort of get it but regardless I think it's very interesting.

birdsongs 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm just 40, and while I won't go into it, I've lived a very long life so far. An incredible amount of joy, but also grief and pain. Memory for me, when I'm drinking my coffee in the morning, is warm and cozy in a numbing sort of way, but I have to be careful where I walk in it.

I certainly don't wish for death, I still find so much beauty and joy in life, and I still find and experience love. But I don't wish for an afterlife, or prolonged life. If I'm fortunate to live until my natural death, I will welcome it.

Humanity will go on, there are billions of threads of consciousness right now, and I feel so much gratitude that I was and am one of those. I have a lot of comfort in being wrapped and surrounded by those threads, and that they will continue around me when mine frays and ends.

My cannon view is that we're just the universe experiencing itself, and that while my consciousness will end, that universe will go on, my atoms part of it.

card_zero an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One thing I sometimes hope is true, in my materialistic atheistic way, is to do with the problem of sci-fi teleportation. See, if you go through a transporter on Star Trek, you're taken apart and reassembled. This makes people worry, ludicrously, that the reassembled version "isn't really me". You could after all refrain from taking the original apart, and simply duplicate people. Both copies of some guy called Bernard would claim "I am Bernard", and both would be right.

So this makes me think that from moment to moment, as we pass through time at one second per second, it's as if we're being sent through a transporter. That is to say, if in the far future after my death I am reassembled, or even if just a close imitation of me is assembled from whatever data they can get hold of, then that would be no different from me, or Bernard, being brought back to life. "I am Bernard", he would say, and he'd still be right. Of course other Bernard wouldn't get to share his experiences, but so what. My former self can't share my present experiences.

So, why hope for this to happen at all? It has to be that what we're emotionally invested in is not really "continuity of experience", which is a myth, but continuity of ideas. It's nice if those ideas can sit together in the coherent context of a mind. The Woody Allen quote is "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying." But perhaps in fact through your work is good enough, really? Like a close second.

What I mean to say is, I don't so much hope for an afterlife, as to discover that it philosophically doesn't matter anyway. Though I prefer people not dead.

pino999 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is the safest and easiest solution. You die, nothing happens.

When there is an afterlife or perhaps even eternity, the problems begin.

BobbyTables2 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Definitely!. Hence people must support religious institutions to guide them to the afterlife…

Imagine taking sports coaching from one who never played…

neal_jones 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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sdevonoes 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

religious beliefs aside, there’s something pleasing about living a good life and facing a decent death: closure.

claysmithr 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

except without religious beliefs you cannot objectively define good and bad, it's all just moral relativism.

lapcat 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I do get the sense that many atheists not only reject God & the afterlife but actually don't want there to be a God or an afterlife.

I feel that eternity in Heaven would actually be Hell, because nothing would matter. No danger, no failure, no challenge, no goals, no purpose. What gives life meaning are mortality, limitations, beginnings and endings, progress.

I recently watched the film "Eternity" on Apple TV, starring Elizabeth Olsen, in which everyone after they die has to choose their own form of afterlife and then stick with it forever. All I could think about was how bored I would eventually get. (The film itself was pretty good, not boring. That's because it had an ending!)

Fiction is ideal for playing out these scenarios. Think also of the film "Highlander", in which the ultimate "prize" of the immortals turns out to be mortality. MacLeod's life had become repetitive, and he couldn't fully invest in it, because he kept losing everyone he loved. They grew old and died, while he lived on and had to keep changing identities. For a while it's a grand adventure... until it isn't anymore.

I can certainly understand wanting to live longer, but eternity is unimaginably long, way too long. I don't think that's something to be desired.

card_zero an hour ago | parent [-]

Problems, yes. "Biology is going to kill me soon" shouldn't have to be one of those problems, and in fact I think it makes us all slightly crazy in different ways, from not caring about the future to unscrupulously believing in afterlives.

lapcat an hour ago | parent [-]

I suspect you indended to reply to the sibling comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47827905 which contains the word "problems" rather than my comment which does not?

card_zero an hour ago | parent [-]

No, I was disputing "mortality" while agreeing with "challenges", which I've written as problems in the nice sense of "please let me finish my problem". That's some historical figure's alleged last words, I think.

(Edit: probably an embellishment of Archimedes, supposedly saying to the Roman soldier who killed him, "do not disturb my circles!" - not exactly a plaintive attitude about mortality, more just being a grumpy geometrist.)

ctdinjeu3 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

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bobbyswiss 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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