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cbdevidal 3 hours ago

I’m a bit of an optimist. I think this will smack the hands of developers who don’t manage RAM well and future apps will necessarily be more memory-efficient.

rekabis 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I think this will smack the hands of developers who don’t manage RAM well

And hopefully kill Electron.

I have never seen the point of spinning up a 300+Mb app just to display something that ought to need only 500Kb to paint onto the screen.

api 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The point is being able to write it once with web developers instead of writing it a minimum of twice (Windows and macOS) with much harder to hire native UI developers.

aeonfox 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

And HTML/CSS/JS are far more powerful for designing than any of SwiftUI/IB on Apple, Jetpack/XML on Android, or WPF/WinUI on Windows, leaving aside that this is what designers, design platforms and AI models already work best with. Even if all the major OSes converged on one solution, it still wouldn't compete on ergonomics or declarative power for designing.

righthand 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The point is you can be lazy and write the app in html and js. Then you dont need to write c, even though c syntax is similar to js syntax and most gui apps wont require needing advanced c features if the gui framework is generous enough.

Now that everyone who cant be bothered, vibe codes, and electron apps are the overevangelized norm… People will probably not even worry about writing js and electron will be here to stay. The only way out is to evangelize something else.

Like how half the websites have giant in your face cookie banners and half have minimalist banners. The experience will still suck for the end user because the dev doesnt care and neither do the business leaders.

dminik 37 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

What "advanced features" are there to speak of in C? What does the syntax of C being similar to JS matter?

This comment makes no sense.

righthand 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

Well theres the whole c89 vs c99. I’ll let you figure the rest out since it’s a puzzle in your perspective.

david-gpu an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Syntax ain't the problem. The semantics of C and JS could not be more different.

righthand an hour ago | parent [-]

But the point isn’t that they’re more different than alike. The point is that learning c is not really that hard it’s just that corporations don’t want you building apps with a stack they don’t control.

If a js dev really wanted to it wouldn’t be a huge uphill climb to code a c app because the syntax and concepts are similar enough.

michaelt an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Honestly C and JavaScript could hardly be more different, as languages.

About the only thing they share is curly braces.

Dylan16807 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You do need a couple framebuffers, but for the most part yeah...

pron 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Using a lot less RAM often implies using more CPU, so even with inflated RAM prices, it's not a good tradeoff (at least not in general).

zozbot234 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In practice, you generally see the opposite. The "CPU" is in fact limited by memory throughput. (The exception is intense number crunching or similar compute-heavy code, where thermal and power limits come into play. But much of that code can be shifted to the GPU.)

pron 2 hours ago | parent [-]

RAM throughput and RAM footprint are only weakly related. The throughput is governed by the cache locality of access patterns. A program with a 50MB footprint could put more pressure on the RAM bus than one with a 5GB footprint.

zozbot234 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You're absolutely right? I don't really disagree with anything you're saying there, that's why I said "generally" and "in practice".

pron an hour ago | parent [-]

Reducing your RAM consumption is not the best approach to reducing your RAM throughput is my point. It could be effective in some specific situations, but I would definitely not say that those situations are more common than the other ones.

zamadatix 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The tradeoff has almost exclusively been development time vs resource efficiency. Very few devs are graced with enough time to optimize something to the point of dealing with theoretical tradeoff balances of near optimal implementations.

pron an hour ago | parent [-]

That's fine, but I was responding to a comment that said that RAM prices would put pressure to optimise footprint. Optimising footprint could often lead to wasting more CPU, even if your starting point was optimising for neither.

zamadatix 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

My response was that I disagree with this conclusion, not that I'm changing the premise. If the starting point was optimising for neither it's VERY easy to optimize one without tanking the other, there's just no pressure to do so at the moment.

What you're saying only makes sense if apps were RAM bloated because of algorithmic tradeoffs. If you look at bloated apps, it's because of selecting extremely high level abstractions which are quicker to develop with.

DimmieMan 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Only if the software is optimised for either in the first place.

Ton of software out there where optimisation of both memory and cpu has been pushed to the side because development hours is more costly than a bit of extra resource usage.

dehrmann an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're thinking an algorithmic tradeoff, but this is an abstraction tradeoff.

pron an hour ago | parent [-]

Some of the algorithms are built deep into the runtime. E.g. languages that rely on malloc/free allocators (which require maintaining free lists) are making a pretty significnant tradoff of wasting CPU to save on RAM as opposed to languages using moving collectors.

IsTom 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Or just using less electron and writing less shit code.