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Noaidi 6 hours ago

No.

First, FISA was created in 1978 to protect Americans from the CIA by forcing them to show probably casuse. Section 702 of FISA is about intercepting any foreigners communications for which they need no warrent.

But the CIA incidentally collects data of U.S citizens during these warrentless wire taps, and that would be the 4th amendment challenge, but so far that is going nowhere.

rsingel 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Close but a lot of this, as Sen Wyden points out, turns on how NSA and DoJ lawyers define terms. So you get situations where bulk collection of communications of Americans to Americans into a data center isn't considered interception until a human looks at it. There's so much we don't know because the policies/legal interpretation and the FISA court rulings on them are secret. Sen Wyden tries to warn but he can only hint at the real dangers and policies

WillAdams 5 hours ago | parent [-]

An important consideration is that just the graph of who talks to whom can be quite powerful:

https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metad...

anonymousiam 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There's also the game that they play where they spoof BGP announcements that cause routing changes for domestic traffic that makes it flow out and then back into the US, making it fair game for collection. Also, our Five Eyes partners aren't prohibited from collecting on US targets, and we all share.

andai 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Doesn't "receiving surveillance data about your citizens that your allies collected for you" also count as spying on your own citizens?

I'm not a lawyer but...

"You spied on me!" -"Relax, sweetheart... Of course I didn't spy on you. I got Mike to spy on you. Hey Mike!"