>there is a strong case to be made that waste and corruption is quite low (as a %),

This is even worse, not better. If what we see around us were due to corruption and waste, then the corruption might be rooted out and the waste might be curtailed. But if instead what we see is unavoidable as some intrinsic characteristic of bureaucracy and overhead, then your opponents won't be satisfied until they burn it all down and dance naked in the ashes. And I'd be inclined to celebrate with them.

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lokar 3 days ago | parent [-]

IME, what we see (when we see things we don't like), are things we don't understand. When you take the time to actually dig in and see what's going on, it makes more sense and is neither wasteful or ineffective.

The government is about as effective and efficient as the median large corporation, IMO.

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nothinkjustai 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

How are you coming to that conclusion? Vibes?

Also why would you expect a large corporation to not be completely bogged down by bureaucracy and inefficiencies? That’s been my experience. The case against large government also applies to large business, it’s just that one has a monopoly on violence and the other has to compete in the market.

	▲	lokar 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		Right, all large human organizations have a base-line of inefficiency and corruption, with some amount of variance. I'm not arguing that is great, or that we should simply expect it. But, that it's somewhat dishonest to portray government as unique in this.

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NoMoreNicksLeft 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

>When you take the time to actually dig in and see what's going on, it makes more sense and is neither wasteful or ineffective.

I'm not disagreeing. So what? It's not wasteful, and it is effective at what the bureaucrats intended it to do. The Baby Stomping Machine 9000 is a marvel of efficiency and stomps babies much more effectively than the old way of stomping on babies. I get that. You're really, truly, factually correct when you say that.

And yet, I don't support it. I oppose it strongly, and I want to see it gone. And if the people who made it are punished afterwards, that's just a bonus. If they are heartbroken and forlorn with it being gone from the world, their tears are sweet nectar.

I get this. Why can't you? I can see it from your perspective. You can't see it from mine.

	▲	lokar 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		Large problems often require large groups of humans to address them. Large groups of humans are inefficient. That does not mean we should give up on addressing large problems, or doing the best we can to reduce the inefficiency. The benefit from addressing the problems outweighs the cost in inefficiency.