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savanaly 7 hours ago

>how ingenious Japan’s system of zoning is

I'm only barely familiar with it so I ask this in good faith: is it really ingenious or is it just more permissive? My bias/priors are that the simpler and truer statement is: it can't be overstated how beneficial more permissive zoning laws are to a society.

Tiktaalik 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There are other aspects beyond simply being more permissive. I recall reading for example that property transfer tax is remarkably less on bare land, enough so that when travelling in Japan you will regularly notice bare lots for sale, as it is beneficial for the seller to tear down a lot before they sell it. This sort of thing encourages churn of housing, and coupled with liberal zoning, enables an accelerated increase in denser building. Tbh it probably encourages lower construction costs since more people are doing construction.

IMO in this whole conversation, whether discussing any jurisdiction not just japan, impacts of zoning is an over emphasized and tax policy under emphasized (ie. almost never discussed).

cucumber3732842 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I have a hard time believing that a tax code that incentives destruction in any capacity is a good thing.

If the land is more valuable without a structure the current owner has natural incentive to do that, or someone else has incentive to buy, demolish and re-list.

nottorp 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

From what I remember, Japanese zoning allows small shops (there's a size limit) in any residential zone.

That means no car trips when you run out of bread or milk.

Smartest property of that zoning system IMO.

infecto 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I also wonder how much the pressure filled culture of not standing out has something to do with this. My impression is Japanese are under a lot more pressure to not abuse the permissiveness of the zoning laws.

ttul 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You haven’t lived until you have experienced the Japanese Kombini (convenience store).

dgellow 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Fwiw that’s what we have in Germany, unless you live in remote places. You always have a Lidl, Aldi, or REWE you can walk or bike to.

No idea what our local zoning laws are

gpvos 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Even the smallest Lidl, Aldi, or REWE are not small shops in the sense meant here.

chmod775 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Not really the same thing. They're much larger already than most stores you'd see in urban Japan.

Think more in terms of small convenience stores ("Spätis" with daily necessities) everywhere. Typical distance to a store is maybe 500-1000m in Germany. In dense areas of Japanese cities it's closer to one store every 100m-200m.

So in Germany it'd be a 10 minute walk, while in Japan most of your "walk" would be getting downstairs.

The flipside of that is that selection is going to be limited compared to what you'd find in Germany.

dgellow an hour ago | parent [-]

I see. What you describe does seem to match what I experienced in NYC, Portugal, and Spain? Small supermarkets everywhere with a bit of a random selection of items

zbrozek 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's a big part of it. They also do zoning mostly at the federal level, meaning local opposition isn't relevant.

6 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
dangus 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sometimes permissive zoning laws don’t actually encourage positive urban development outcomes.

Example: Texas

Zoning has to both exist and be well-designed.

graeme 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Texas zoning isn't nearly as permissive as Japan's. Setbacks are a big added requirement. Minimum parking requirements too though that is changing.

But it would not be legal to build japanese neighbourhoods in Texas.

larsiusprime 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Texas zoning is only “permissive” relative to other states. Relative to Japan it’s quite restrictive.

zbrozek 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I bet you'd see natural market driven concentration around rail stations in Texas too, if they had a useful rail network.

XenophileJKO 6 hours ago | parent [-]

You might be surprised, look at Dallas. They have a pretty extensive rail network.

Schiendelman 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Dallas does not have permissive zoning, even in comparison to a city like Seattle.