| ▲ | mrdomino- 6 hours ago |
| Neat idea. I remember way back in the day, there was some question as to the legality of compelled unlocking of devices; IIRC, it’s been deemed legal to compel a fingerprint, but illegal (under the first amendment?) to compel entry of a password—IIRC, as long as that password hasn’t been written down anywhere. I gather this is written to that end primarily? Or is there some other goal as well? |
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| ▲ | seanieb 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I wrote this after the case of a Washington Post reporter, Hannah Natanson, was compelled to unlock her computer with her fingerprint. This resulted in access to her Desktop Signal on her computer, revealing sources and their conversations. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/washington-post-raid-pro... Edit: I've a lot more details about the legality and precedence on the apps landing page https://paniclock.github.io/ |
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| ▲ | dang 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | (I've put a copy of this text at the top of the thread, since it's standard for Show HNs to have some intro/background up there. I hope that's ok with you!) | | | |
| ▲ | mrdomino- 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Cool, thank you. |
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| ▲ | 420official 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| While it's true that the legality of law enforcement forcing passwords in unclear, courts can absolutely force you to enter a password even if it's not written down by holding you in contempt indefinitely. |
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| ▲ | xoa 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | >courts can absolutely force you to enter a password even if it's not written down by holding you in contempt indefinitely. This is not true outside of a narrow exception. Indeed this is the core point of the 5th Amendment, to protect you from having to be witness against yourself. It's just as binding on the judicial branch as it is on the executive. Ordinarily, a court may not compel a defendant to testify or say something that could incriminate them. The narrow exception is the "foregone conclusion doctrine", which allows compelling testimony about specific evidence the government legally knows exists, knows the defendant controls access to, and knows is authentic. All of which has a bunch of caselaw around it. The textbook example is somebody has a device open, and an officer directly witnesses illegal material on it, but before they can seize it the person manages to turn it off and now it cannot be accessed without a password. So the government can say "we witnessed this specific illegal material, and this device is owned by the defendant and we can prove from video that they have accessed the device, and we want access to that specific material". But if you're just crossing the border with a locked device, they cannot compel the password just to search through it, or even if they're suspicious of something specific. They need actual knowledge, either through their own evidence or because the person foolishly talks and confesses something. Otherwise they can definitely physically seize the device for a time (which could be very inconvenient/expensive depending) but that's it. |
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| ▲ | xoxxala 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The website has some more info on the biometric vs. password debate and legal situation: https://paniclock.github.io/ |
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| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
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| ▲ | whalesalad 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Take it to the logical end - you can tie up / handcuff / sedate / restrain an individual in order to get their fingerprint (or, ahem, way worse) but you cannot extract a password from someones brain. |
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| ▲ | vunderba 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > cannot extract a password from someones brain. May I introduce you to XKCD Number 538. https://xkcd.com/538 | |
| ▲ | stavros 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If it's in scope to "way worse" someone to get their fingerprint, I'm sure I can be very persuasive in getting their passwords. | | |
| ▲ | whalesalad 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | You can get the fingerprint of a dead person... you cannot extract a password from a dead person. | | |
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