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moab 3 days ago

Is anyone surprised? I'm reminded of how I felt during the NFT craze. LLMs are extremely powerful when used with deliberate care. Gas Town is the exact opposite of what is needed to actually do useful things in prod. I guess good on Steve for doing what he does so well, and getting so much hype around a vibe coded mess.

jauntywundrkind 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> are extremely powerful when used with deliberate care. Gas Town is the exact opposite of what is needed to actually do useful things in prod.

This judgement feels premature.

We really don't have any idea what is possible. The wheels within wheels, epicycles within epicycles model of agentic loops hasn't really been deeply explored and we just don't know where they might go.

I too share your instinct that human steering helps, helps a lot. But I've found I can keep using less of it, as I setup better parameters, as I improve conducing the LLM into good paths. The idea that an LLM could sit up top and help try not one idea at a time but try many things, then pick and cobble together next goes: that is madly madly madly exciting to me.

I don't want to keep being the bandwidth limiter in this system: I want to scale out. I haven't been following close or trying but I tend to think while total hands off is not the way, having LLMs that can cover a lot of terrain, explore a lot of solution spaces and directions, then assess how to put it together & what to take forward, and other practices of agents watching agents, has enormous potential.

Deliberate care relies on pre-obtained wisdom, and often, the human biases kind of suck and aren't they good. We aren't great at burning down our systems enough, at Chad Fowler Phoenix Architectures. I think the AI's lack of over deliberation and it's ability to try vastly more could be a huge advantage, could show diversity triumphing over specific crafted intent.

zotex 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

this is why transparency matters with anything that touches cloud AI. if your routing user prompts through any API, users should know exactly whats being sent, where it goes, and whether it gets stored or used for training. Burying that in terms of service isnt good enough

dumbfounder 2 days ago | parent [-]

No, users should demand it.

For open source you get what you get and you don’t get upset. Has anyone ever sued an open source project?

Quarrelsome 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I guess good on Steve for doing what he does so well, and getting so much hype around a vibe coded mess.

Shit coin aside, I don't get the hate for Gastown, we all know its theoretically plausible and he's giving it a shot. We get value either way, either we learn its not just theory or we get to watch it burn in the flames of a legal/financial/security/maintenance nightmare for its practitioners.

FuckButtons 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Because he should know better? Because it’s obviously a shit show but he keeps on being very vocal about his shit show? Because it’s annoying to have to see yet another delusional vibe coded project being hyped up instead of this forum being used to discuss actually industry relevant information?

direwolf20 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Because it’s annoying to have to see yet another delusional vibe coded project being hyped up instead of this forum being used to discuss actually industry relevant information?

It's industry-relevant. This is what the industry is now. All in two short years.

Quarrelsome 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

he's doing it in the open. Its instructive for us all either way.

> he keeps on being very vocal about his shit show?

I'm not really sure what this complaint is. You want someone doing something to not.... write a blog about it?

> Because it’s annoying to have to see yet another delusional vibe coded project being hyped up instead of this forum being used to discuss actually industry relevant information?

I think I've seen around 2 posts, one the original gastown one and then the gascity one. Is two posts in like a year too much or do I miss a midday rush where the front page is all Yegge?

apsurd 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

You are saying: by virtue of the value of creation, anything that is created cannot have negative effects.

Quarrelsome 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Many people are trying to make this thing, this is the one we can all see. I'd rather have the visible one remain visible because it gives us a useful data point and/or entertainment.

apsurd 2 days ago | parent [-]

fair

2 days ago | parent | prev [-]
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juped 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Just like with NFTs, this is all going to discredit the actually sensible use cases for years.

taurath 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Which sensible use cases?

PixyMisa 3 days ago | parent [-]

Money laundering.

chrneu 2 days ago | parent [-]

that plus pump n dump/hype train investing.

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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PunchyHamster 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

...still haven't seen single sensible use case for one that couldn't be solved easier/better/cheaper normal way

justonceokay 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I’m reminded of the Carl Rogers therapy app that was developed in the 80s.

People would type in their problems and how they were feeling. The application had very very simple logic that would follow up with a set series of statements or questions. Things like “that sounds tough” and “how does that make you feel?”.

People reported great satisfaction, even if they knew that the application had no smarts behind it. Because of course the whole time the magic of therapy lies in verbalizing your problems, with very little actively done by the therapist.

Now you can pay an LLM subscription for a service that likely produces worse results since it is tuned to be aggressively (and insidiously) sycophantic.

suburban_strike 2 days ago | parent [-]

The process is called Socratic questioning (or rabbinical reasoning).

You can implement the same thing in python-aiml for free.

https://github.com/paulovn/python-aiml/blob/master/aiml/botd...

conception 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Digital goods- like digital rights for movies, games, etc. only none of the big players would ever give up their walled gardens/licenses instead of ownership for content etc.