Kamala would have 100% failed to confront the Iranian problem head on.

smallmancontrov 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's what they said about Obama, but he got Iran to give up their stockpile of enriched Uranium, give up enrichment beyond 4%, and submit to a severe inspection program. All for unfreezing less money than Trump has spent so far on the Iran War, let alone the $200B that he wants, let alone the economic damage from the Hormuz shutdown, let alone the $5T that happened last time a Republican asked to spend $200B on a quick little war.

At the time, the Republicans whined incessantly about how soft Obama was. But they sure enjoyed dropping those Obama Bombs last year that he commissioned as a Plan B. Obama spoke softly, carried a big stick, and hammered out a brilliant deal. Trump bragged loudly, tore up the deal, swung the stick he inherited, missed, and fell in the oil. Sad.

At the time, Israel whined incessantly about how Iran was going to secretly enrich anyway. But their own intelligence from compromising the enrichment program shows in hindsight that this was not the case and Iran was behaving themselves.

That's why I base my expectations on track records, not on Republican whining.

▲

CGMthrowaway 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You're right about a lot above. I would clarify though that Obama's deal was made by paying $150B+ to Iran (releasing frozen assets), which was immediately used to fund terrorists and conflicts in Syria, Yemen, Iraq etc.

US withdrew from JCPOA under Trump (which led to a certain chain of events), but Biden was not able to revive it during his term. Not clear why we think a different president would be able to, and under what terms/concessions.

	▲	smallmancontrov 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It was $100B more like $50B once you subtract the obligations which unfroze with the assets. We are quarreling over a pittance compared to what we will spend at the pumps and on the war, though. I wonder what wonderful things all the Russian and Iranian (!) oil that Trump lifted sanctions on will fund! We will find out in time. Kamala had a better shot at reviving the deal for the same reason Trump thought he had a chance at regime change: Iran's situation has been deteriorating. I'm quite sure that if she had hammered out a deal comparable to the JCPOA, Republicans would be running around yapping about how Trump would have achieved peace in the middle east by just having the stones to bomb Iran. Lol.

▲

kelnos 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Obama spoke softly, carried a big stick, and hammered out a brilliant deal. Trump bragged loudly, tore up the deal, swung the stick he inherited, missed, and fell in the oil.

This is probably the best and most succinct -- and pithy -- take I've read as of yet.

▲

ipython 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I wish people would reply with rebuttals rather than downvoting you.

▲

kelnos 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Good, there was nothing that needed confronting.

Iran's regime sucked (still sucks), to be sure. This was frankly not all that much of an issue for the US. It was a big issue for other Arab nations in the area (not to mention for Israel), but I'm not sure why we should be doing their dirty work.

If the end result of all this is a large weakening in Iran's regime, a reduction in Iran's influence in the region, and (otherwise) a return to the status quo, I guess that's something of a victory. But it's far from clear that we'll even come out that well, and meanwhile we've murdered civilians, and spent American lives and war materiel. Not great. We should have left well enough alone.

	▲	cnd78A 37 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		"Iran's regime sucked" because they kicked out our western puppet? or is it because Iran is a a democracy, unlike "other Arab nations" (by the way iranian are as much arabs than you) or Israel ? (Note that I'm not fan of Iran culture, but I'm not fan of ingroup cultures either).

▲

bigfudge 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm not sure if you're joking and this is a backhanded compliment to Harris, or you're sincere in your belief that what Trump will negotiate is going to be better than the Obama deal he ditched in the first term.

I hope you're joking!