Can we please go back to template-based server rendering (e.g. JSP, PHP, ASP, Handlebars/Mustache) and use JS for user interactivity only? Tired of seeing this cycle play out with a new framework every 5-6 years.

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com2kid 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There are benefits to having the same type system throughout a code base. Also Typescript is a really nice language.

The other issue is, many websites are basically apps. The HTML is a byproduct, it isn't the main event. The template based systems are fine if you have mostly plain HTML with some interactivity sprinkled in, but for people who are building complex web apps, there is typically a tiny bit of HTML and a lot of logic.

The old template based systems fall to pieces for really complicated sites.

In regards to language, if you are going to pick a JITed or interpreted language, may as well pick one that has had a lot of effort put into making it fast, and the JS runtimes are really optimized by now. Java is faster, but Typescript is a much better language (and more type safe!) than Java.

	▲	mb2100 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Agree that TypeScript is nice, especially for sharing templates and types between server and client. But you can still use TypeScript on the server without sending it all to the client, and without a complex and insecure protocol like RSC. I’m working on making this as simple and dependency-free as possible: https://mastrojs.github.io

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gherkinnn 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

JSX is easily the most productive templating language out there, I fail to see your point.

	▲	mepkn 10 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I am not a fan of React, but they killed it with JSX, absolutely beautiful
	▲	mexicocitinluez 5 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Coming from years of Angular, I had convinced myself I wouldn't like JSX before even using it. Now, 4 years in, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I spent almost 6 years writing Angular templates and I don't want to go back.

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methyl 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What’s stopping you from using those?

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curtisblaine 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have good news: all that you mention is still available and ready for you to use! It has not been deprecated in any form and as far as I know it has not been made illegal.

If, instead, you wanted to say "can everyone please use the things I like?", I'm sorry but that's not how it works. You don't get to tell people what they should do just because you're "tired".

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mexicocitinluez 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Thank you. Every time I see a "Why can't we just go back to simpler days" comment it takes everything in me not to reply "No one is stopping you".

The idea that complexity arose out of nowhere and not because the web is doing things we couldn't have even imagined 10 years ago has always been wild to me.

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sgarland 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Complexity mostly rose out of necessity, but the problem is it keeps being applied where it isn’t needed. Most projects don’t need Kafka, or Elastic, or Redis, or GraphQL, etc.

My main complaint is that by and large, the people who are applying these technologies heavy-handedly are doing so because they either think it’s needed, or because they don’t understand that simpler tools exist that could solve their problem.

	▲	mexicocitinluez 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> Most projects don’t need Kafka, or Elastic, or Redis, or GraphQL, etc. I guess I just don't really see this being a problem outside of social media. And I think another aspect that gets lost is that 20 years, your options were slim. Which means picking the right tool for the job was easier (because even if it wasn't the right tool, chances are it was as close as you were gonna get). Things are different right now. Even something as ubiquitous as authentication is vastly different than it was back then. There's way more at play when picking tools nowadays, so it doesn't surprise me when people get it wrong.

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mepkn 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I was on the same boat, coming from Django, but having used JSX, I absolutely love it, to the point that I try to use JSX in Vue and Django