I think a lot of HN readers and a lot of first world/law abiding dwelllers in this and recent threads forget to think.

Violence is not a panacea, but often, the outlet.

Yes we all (majority of sane) people know that violence is not the answer yada yada yada. Doesn’t matter. It will happen anyway. Saying “it shouldn’t happen, it does not solve X” will not stop it to becoming an outlet for frustrated people.

▲

markus_zhang 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Exactly.

Actually violence is the ultimate power. It is where true power comes from — you can gain true power by hurting other people or/and benefiting other people, and it is always the power to hurt people that is the greater of the two.

A well run government wraps violence behind a curtain and jealously guard it. For example most modern governments look down and punish private vendetta because the state is only the one that can hurt people legally. But if the people believe that the government is biased or don’t care about them, then they will resort to violence, the ultimate power.

▲

skybrian 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There’s a sort of fatalism about violence here, like someone saying that school shootings are always going to happen.

It’s true that you or I aren’t likely to do anything about school shootings. But I’m not sure it follows that nothing can be done.

▲

jacquesm 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Given enough people enough guns and school shootings are inevitable.

Allow a handful of people that grab the economy and all means of production and violence will be the result.

At this point in time it is simply cause and effect, the surprising thing to me is how long it is holding together. But at the rate the economy is being wrecked I fail to see how it will do so for much longer.

Effectively the French elites started the French revolution by being a little bit more greedy than the population would have tolerated. That set off an avalanche of what were effectively a series of mini revolutions ultimately resulting in modern France, which is in many ways unlike any other country in the world. The United States had its war of independence (aided by France, by the way), and then its civil war. But it never had a class war - yet - and this article presages that class war.

It could well be that the small number of rich people that are currently effectively a government outside of the government genuinely believe that their wealth and power insulate them from the consequences of pushing their greed and wealthy to ridiculous levels. But I suspect the author is right in that this is approaching some kind of threshold and I have no way of seeing across the divide, I'm hoping for another France rather than another Somalia.

▲

skybrian 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Crime isn't a simple cause and effect relationship just because you say it is.

For example, in the US, bomb threats were very common in the early 70's and then they stopped and nobody really knows why.

▲

jacquesm 2 hours ago | parent [-]

These two things don't have a whole lot to do with each other.

Sure, crime isn't 'simple cause and effect'. But it is still as simple as 'means, motive, opportunity' and if means are plentiful that reduces the friction on the way to crime.

As for the bomb threats, I have no idea, but I also don't see them as the kind of crime that we are discussion here (violence, in particular). Bomb threats are a denial of service attack, actually killing or wounding people is on another level (at least, it is for me).

One suggestion: the widespread use of ANI + mobile phones and the disappearance of pay-phones + cameras on every street corner make it a lot harder to call in a bomb threat without getting caught.

	▲	skybrian 26 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		"Means, motive, opportunity" is a helpful framework, but that doesn't make violence predictable. For example, there are many religions and ideologies that people can latch onto and which crazies get motivated by what ideology doesn't seem all that predictable? It could come from any political point of view or be based on something obscure.

▲

Trasmatta 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is why a healthy democracy is important. It helps act as a pressure release for problems that historically resulted in violence. Democracy in the US in particular is in a major backslide, and it's not alarmist to predict that violence will increase in the coming years.

▲

nailer 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Violence is not a panacea, but often, the outlet.

Violence - specifically violently destroying society as it stands now - is often the goal. AI is an excuse.

▲

sp527 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Violence is not a panacea, but often, the outlet.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

History demonstrates categorically that violence is the last and most reliable form of recourse available to the disempowered, once society has trended too far towards either an excess of freedom or an excess of equality. And, in fact, our position in that balance between freedom and equality is perpetually oscillating, tending to finally reverse direction only in response to violent revolt.

This cycle has repeated over and over, essentially since the dawn of civilization. This was among the most important insights of 'The Lessons of History' by Will and Ariel Durant. And it's baked on two very simple insights about human nature: (1) those in power rarely give it up willingly (they often do the opposite) and (2) fear, on average, is and always will be a far stronger motivator than appeals to a person's conscience.

▲

cindyllm 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]