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surgical_fire 9 hours ago

If AI eliminates the need for creativity and work, it means that our creativity and work are not meaningful enough to warrant survival.

I don't think we're anywhere near that point.

yoz-y 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don’t understand this take. For me creativity and thinking is the whole purpose of life.

surgical_fire 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Then you clearly don't understand my take.

yoz-y an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I understood you well enough. I disagree with the idea that something that has been replaced or obsoleted does not warrant survival in general. And human creativity in particular.

surgical_fire 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's not only that it would have been made obsolete.

phpnode 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Then you should explain yourself better

conartist6 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I understood it. Nature has had an amount of computing power to work on this problem that utterly dwarfs the tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, amount of compute resources that humans have. Thinking that 10 years of Sam Altman is competitive with all of natural history isn't just out-of-control hubris, it's a complete failure to understand the ground-truth of the world we live in. You may as well try to pay a million dollar debt with a single dime.

surgical_fire 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Correct. At least someone here is able to read words and understand the meaning behind them.

The funny thing is that I am a sort of misanthrope. And in that, in this forum, I seem to have a lot more respect and optimism for human potential and ingenuity than the majority here.

conartist6 7 hours ago | parent [-]

It's funny that us curmudgeons are the ones they can't quite beat all the hope out of :'D

ekidd 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Personally, I would surprised if we are less than 3 years or more than 20 years from humans being obsolete. That is, humans would be economic dead weight, any job could be done better by AI/robots, and "comparative advantage" wouldn't apply because it's cheap enough to just make more robots. At this point, the average human would be completely useless to the billionaires (or to the AIs, if the billionaires fail to control the AIs).

I can see two major delaying factors here:

1. Current generation LLM technology won't scale to true AGI. It's missing a number of critical things. But a lot of effort is being spent fixing those limitations. But until those limitations are overcome, humans will be needed to "manage" LLMs and work around their limitations, just like programmers do today.

2. Generalist robotics is far behind LLMs for multiple reasons, including insufficient sensors and fine motor control. This would require multiple scientific and engineering breakthroughs to fix. Investors will, presumably, spend a large chunk of the world's wealth to improve robotics to replace manual labor. But until they do, human hands will still be needed in the physical world.

The real danger is if AI passes a point where it starts contributing substantially to its own development, speeding up the pace of breakthroughs. If we ever hit that tipping point, then things will get weird, and not in a good way.

wongarsu 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I broadly agree with a 3-20 year timeline for a majority of office work. But some important qualifying statements I would add:

- some jobs will stay with humans even when AI would be better at it. We already see a lot of this with even with pre-AI automatisation. Neither markets nor companies are perfectly efficient

- at the point where AI is better than the average human, half of all humans are still better than AI. For companies or departments built around employing lots of average people the cutover point will be a lot earlier than for shops that aim to employ the best of the best. Social change is inevitable long before the best are out of work

- the actual benchmark for " replacement" is not human vs machine, but human plus machine vs machine alone. But the difference doesn't matter much because efficiency increases still displace workers

- I don't think robots will advance enough to meet this timeline. This is not just a software issue. Humans have an amazing suite of sensors and actuators. Just replicating a human hand is insanely complex. Walking, jumping robots are crude automatons in comparison. We can cover a lot with specialized robots, but we won't replace humans in physical jobs in 20 years

ekidd 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I agree that robots are much further off than people expect, in raw technical terms. As you point out, the sensors and actuators in a human hand are far beyond the state of the art.

But all of that is assuming a world where research is being done by humans, or by some mix of humans and something like current LLMs. The bottlenecks would ultimately come down to human judgement and human oversight, and that's a significant limiting factor. Plus, you have to push matter around, which takes time, and you have to extract a lot of information out of limited experiences, which LLMs are bad at.

But if someone is reckless and clever enough to build AIs that can completely replace engineers, or that only need humans as hands, then I don't think we can count on robotics remaining intractable for more than a decade or so. In a wide variety of circumstances, it's possible to make do with worse actuators than the human hand, or with specialized actuators. We can already build incredibly precise motors and specialized sensors. The trouble comes with trying to pack enough of them together to replicate the full generality of the human hand. (I have actually helped build task-specific actuators that did quite well with a single motor and a single visual sensor, before.)

So to put my position more precisely: we cannot automate manual labor robotics without having previously automated creative intellectual labor. But conditional on automating creative research, then I expect worryingly rapid advances in robotics.

To be clear, I think that developing fully-general replacements for human intellectual and physical labor would potentially be the biggest disaster in all of human history.

freeone3000 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

AI is already contributing substantially to its own development: https://novaknown.com/2026/03/12/ai-builds-ai-claude/

surgical_fire 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Personally, I would surprised if we are less than 3 years or more than 20 years from humans being obsolete.

I think we are as far from it as we were 10 years ago. Or 100 years ago. I think LLM is a deadend technology. Useful, but that won't get anywhere beyond what it is.

But that's the thing, "personally", "I think", etc. Not much of a debate to be had there.

AI making humans obsolete is not really something that causes me any anxiety.

conartist6 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

throwaway28469 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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