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Tyrubias 3 hours ago

Violence like this is not the answer. However, this post feels like a thinly veiled attempt at using this alarming attack to reclaim public goodwill after the New Yorker article the other day.

> Now I am awake in the middle of the night and pissed, and thinking that I have underestimated the power of words and narratives.

Yeah, the words and narratives that Sam Altman promoted caused so much fear and uncertainty and anger that someone thought their only option was to attempt a horrific crime.

Altman wants to seem relatable and personable even though he’s one of the wealthiest and most powerful people in the world. You don’t get that option when you control a technology that has the potential to alter so many lives, especially when you just sold said technology to the US military. All the talk around democratizing AI rings hollow.

The implication of Altman’s blog seems to be “stop writing critical articles about me because it will cause more violence.” However, the rich and powerful cannot use this excuse to escape objective scrutiny.

noduerme 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

>> Yeah, the words and narratives that Sam Altman promoted caused so much fear and uncertainty and anger that someone thought their only option was to attempt a horrific crime.

The problem with this inversion of your first statement (that violence is not the answer), which everyone justifying violence in this thread seems to forget, is that there is always someone who feels this way about anything.

The words and narratives of Martin Luther King, Jr., for example, caused so much fear and uncertainty and anger in some people that they thought their only option was to commit a horrific crime.

Someone responded to you below saying if you feel that peaceful revolution is impossible, then violent revolution is necessary. That person feels that they are on the side of justice. What they forget is that so does everyone else.

The reason revolutions rarely stop where a reasonable person would want them to stop, and instead continue into eating their own and counter-revolutions, is that once you say that it's understandable to take out a proponent of (X narrative), there's no end to the number of people who will justify violence in the same way against any other narrative as well.

We can all well think that Altman is opening Pandora's Box, but that doesn't justify opening it ourselves, or giving a pass to wannabe revolutionaries who would.

In retrospect, too, we can say that the assassination of Hitler had it succeeded would have been a good thing. We can say that the elimination of the ayatollah by the US was a good thing. What we cannot say is that an individual's perception gives them a right to commmit murder.

qwertytyyuu 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If it wasn’t a good or at least workable answer, the state and corporations would be using it so much

deaux 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

Think you missed an "n't" in "wouldn't" there.

zug_zug 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Violence like this is not the answer.

I know people pretty reflexively downvote questioning this, but I question this. I think some people are afraid that even asking this moral question is somehow inciting violence.

I think it's quite believable that the possibility of force is actually essential to keeping institutions in-line. Certainly a lot of civil rights progress was a lot less peaceful than I was taught in school.

bb88 27 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

That's certainly the implied threat when people show up with AR-15's in the Idaho statehouse. Yes it's legal. But what is the point? This is ruby red Idaho.

I've always said when peaceniks start to carry weapons, it's time to worry. Alex Pretti didn't pull his gun, but still got shot. At what point will some escalation tactic end up in a gun fight between the local police and ICE?

wat10000 20 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Violence is not the answer if and only if there are non-violent ways to achieve necessary goals.

We seem to go through a cycle where we set up systems that provide non-violent ways of resolving issues, then people get annoyed with the outcomes and break down those systems. They hope that it means they'll always get what they want, but what it actually does is make it so that violence is the only way for others to get what they want.

Like organized labor. We seem to be in a cycle where strong labor organization is seen as inefficient or harmful to business, and it's being suppressed. The people suppressing it seem to think that the end state will be low wages and desperate workers. They've forgotten that collective bargaining didn't spring up from nothing, it's the nicer alternative to descending on the boss's mansion with torches and pitchforks.

All that Civil Rights violence you mention was because those in power did not provide any non-violent way to achieve it. Suppressing votes and legalizing oppression only works up to a point. Eventually people will take by force what they've been denied by law.

Or as JFK said it better than I can: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

The corollary: when peaceful revolution has been made impossible, violent revolution is the answer.

tw04 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> it's the nicer alternative to descending on the boss's mansion with torches and pitchforks.

And those bosses are hoping a combination of drones and altman’s AI will keep them safe the next time. Meanwhile we’ve got Altman selling his AI to the military with essentially no restrictions telling us we just need to patiently wait for all the good things it’s going to do for the common man.

Just keep grinding and waiting, he can’t tell you what the benefit will be for you but he promises it will be amazing!

throwthrowuknow 2 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

  > We seem to go through a cycle where we set up systems that provide non-violent ways of resolving issues, then people get annoyed with the outcomes
An excellent illustration of the blind spot
yfw 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Answer to what? Do you know the question?

rustystump 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Interesting you say not vs never. It seems this kid thought it was a time where violence was needed. The question i always ask in these situations is about what the line would be that would justify violence?

Things like healthcare, crime, existential ai, have very grey lines as it isnt obvious when one needs to flip the table. How broken must a system be?

jmull 28 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Violence is an extreme failure state.

If your goal is to improve the system then you always want to move away from it.

Probably a reasonable justification would be self-defense, committing violence to stop worse violence. (Preemptive violence is not self-defense.)

Aeolun 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> what the line would be that would justify violence

It doesn’t matter where we think the line should be drawn, only where those much worse off draw it.

AmericanOP 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is not complicated.

Because of the valuations of Open AI and Anthropic, Sam Altman may be credited with one of the all-time most damaging brand decisions when he got in bed with Trump’s department of war crimes.

This should have been SO OBVIOUS. Attempts to paper over the damage with a $100 billion dollar round will crumble after the IPO. Poor decisions generate poor options, and the whole industry smells his desperation.

Decisions at the highest level are indistinguishable from responsibility. All Sam accomplished was showing the world he is structurally unfit for moral leadership.

conartist6 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes. Yes.

jstummbillig an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Violence like this is not the answer. However

Sigh

kakacik 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sociopath who rides high ego wave and drinks his own kool aid, acting highly amorally and then complaints that his actions have some (benign) consequences.

Why do we care what he thinks? Lets discuss his work if we have to, not emotional pondering and feeling victim.

daseiner1 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

jbverschoor 37 minutes ago | parent [-]

Words and writings (law) only have power because of violence (the monopoly of it)

So yes, in essence, it seems like violence is the answer.

When (perceived) justice is gone, the monopoly crumbles because the system is not working.

And this perception can have many causes

joecasson an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That’s a very dismissive point of view to the seriousness of the situation. He had a Molotov cocktail thrown at his home in the immediate aftermath of an article that painted him in a negative light. The two may not be connected but seem to be.

Hasslequest 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

[dead]

riazrizvi an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Altman didn't create AI. That disruption is already coming no matter what. He's a fine enough steward of the tech. And what's this garbage about selling to the military? You pay taxes? You fund the military. Without security you can't protect your nation or your allies, and enemy nations would do as they please. Yet another citizen who benefits from a system while trying to attack it.

SecretDreams 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> He's a fine enough steward of the tech.

Are you Sam Altman?

angoragoats 37 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> Altman didn't create AI.

No one said he did.

> That disruption is already coming no matter what.

[citation needed]. Depending on what you mean by "that disruption," I might even be willing to bet against it coming at all.

> He's a fine enough steward of the tech.

He's a manipulative con-man who is mediocre at everything except convincing investors to give him money. If the tech is truly as revolutionary as it's purported to be, he absolutely should not be a "steward of the tech."