Not really in disagreement with any of this. I'm just pushing back on "this is a win for Iran".

If we're being honest, there are no winners in war but since we live in a world that likes to have winners and losers, a loss for the US is a victory for Iran.

Not only has Iran managed to survive being battered by the most powerful military in history, it has:

1. Created a global energy and economic crisis.

2. Effectively demonstrated that it can control the Strait of Hormuz even without much naval and air firepower. In doing so, it showed that the US Navy is not capable of controlling the seas anywhere and anytime.

3. Caused the US and its allies to spend billions of dollars worth of advanced weapons systems (many of which were already in short supply) to defend against much cheaper drones and missiles.

4. Incited Trump to lash out at the European countries that have historically been America's biggest allies, accelerating the trend of America's now possibly irreparably damaged relationships with these countries.

5. Baited Trump into publicly and belligerently positioning the US as a hostile state willing to threaten war crimes/genocide to get its way.

	▲	ifwinterco 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Can also add: made it clear that hosting US air bases on your territory is a liability, not an asset
	▲	seanmcdirmid 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		A lot of Iran’s victory simply revolves around Trump being so incompetent. But then again any president with half a brain wouldn’t touch a war with Iran given our negative experience in the region fighting much weaker countries.
	▲	iugtmkbdfil834 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I think I broadly agree with you. Even if we accept the premise that it is not a win for anyone in a war ( there are counters here, but lets say that we accept it ), the reputational damage to US is hard to be overstated. I am not entirely certain some of it will be salvaged. That is how bad it is. I am not a fan of Trump, but I was mostly ambivalent about most of his escapades. He clearly got really lucky with Venezuela and it went to his head.