| ▲ | RiverStone 7 hours ago |
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| ▲ | dbdr 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > “bomb them, they’re all regime supporters” Even those regime supporters are civilians. This is literally advocating for a war crime. |
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| ▲ | RiverStone an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Sad that my comment got flagged, this is a major problem with hacker news - censorship of comments that prevent people from hearing all perspectives. The point of my comment was to give a first-hand conversation with an actual Iranian. You can react to it any way you want, but the point of my comment was to show how some Iranians are actually thinking. And yes, many Iranians want regime change and they see the supporters of the regime as the enemy. The regime hangs protestors by the way. | |
| ▲ | kortilla an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | “War crime” is all but meaningless. They happen in every war and the only side that gets prosecuted for them seems to be the losers. | | |
| ▲ | dbdr an hour ago | parent [-] | | "Corruption" is all but meaningless. It happens in every society and the only people that get prosecuted for them seem to be people outside the elite. /s I don't think holding such views is helpful. Besides, a few people have been prosecuted for war crimes while being on the winning side (or by their own side), some examples: William Calley (US), convicted for his role in the 1968 My Lai massacre, in which American troops killed hundreds of unarmed South Vietnamese civilians. Donald Payne (UK), for abuse and death of an Iraqi detainee. Charles Graner (US), sentenced to 10 years in prison for the abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison. However, we can agree those are very few and far between, compared to all crimes committed. But it's more useful to condemn them and advocate for more accountability than to claim it's useless anyways and normalize calls for more crimes. |
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| ▲ | tdb7893 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sure but that response about the people is entirely ignoring the vastly larger issue of does she (or, more importantly, people actually in Iran) want every single power plant bombed because that is what the threat was (also all bridges and some railroads). This is talking about the country being without power and stable food or water infrastructure for the foreseeable future and a lot of normal people dying (not particularly regime supporters) |
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| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | RiverStone 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | My impression is that people don’t take Trump‘s words literally. Trump often exaggerates and plays word games. If you take every statement from Trump literally you’re going to be constantly triggered. But even so, I think the response you’ll get from most anti-regime Iranians is “go for it, if it may let us get our country back”. Iranians who wants the regime overthrown are very conflicted right now. They see their country being destroyed, but they also hate the regime and want a revolution. They literally feel that their country was hijacked by an Islamic theocracy. They want that destroyed, so they’re thankful that Trump is attacking it. How far should Trump go? I just saw news reports that Iranian expats and anti-regime Iranians were disappointed with the cease-fire. That aligns with the initial reaction from my family and the Iranian expats that I know. So it’s a complicated answer… Do Iranians want all their infrastructure destroyed? If it would guarantee the regime was defeated I think most would say yes. | | |
| ▲ | amritananda 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I have never seen any diaspora have more contempt for their own people than Iranians. Thankfully more recent diaspora in the US are both more level-headed and diverse (coming not just from Tehran and a few other major cities but many other places and ethnic groups). I know an Azeri Iranian who was nothing but contempt for the regime (especially after thousands of protesters were murdered) but is horrified by what the US/Israel has been doing. Diaspora communities are never representative of their home country. This is something I know from my own community, since selection bias leads to a very particular (and privileged) set of people with the means to emigrate, almost universally from a single ethnic group that is less than 11% of the total population. Perhaps you should consider whether the Iranians you know are representative of the Iranian population as a whole. | | |
| ▲ | RiverStone 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I would agree that there is some bias amongst expats, I think that’s a fair point. I think saying diaspora “never represent” their home countries is an exaggeration. All the Iranians in the US I know are first generation immigrants who have been here maybe 5-20 years. I’m not talking about second generation Iranians. They all still have family in Iran. And their views do not differ from their family. My mother-in-law is the most anti-regime person I know, and she lives in Tehran. A bomb recently exploded nearby and broke all the windows in her house. But life goes on, Iranians are extremely resilient. | | |
| ▲ | donkeybeer an hour ago | parent [-] | | Is your wife one of those crazy monarchists? I don't have any preference for the current theocratic dictarorship vs monarchical dictarorship. If they want to be en enslaved people I see no point what the change in figurehead does. I hate monarchies and see no reason to support her kind. I'd fully support any side that wants a proper democracy for iran. Purely historically too of course the USA and Israel are rhe last people whose words I'd trust about wanting to bring "freedom" to a country. The only thing they are experts at are toppling democracies and installing dictators, including in Iran itself. | | |
| ▲ | RiverStone an hour ago | parent [-] | | No, she’s not a monarchist, and she’s actually very uncomfortable with people referring to “prince” Reza Pahlavi. I think she understands that every movement needs a leader, so she’s ok with Mr. Pahlavi leading that, i.e. a constitutional assembly. But beyond that she doesn’t recognize the monarchy | | |
| ▲ | donkeybeer an hour ago | parent [-] | | That's much better then. And I personally am just very wary of any entity claiming they will "just" be a king for a while and cede power given how dictatorial the last pahlavi was. |
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| ▲ | rainbow13 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | archagon 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I gotta say, that's really fucked up. Like, I'm Russian, I hate what Russia is doing, I think support for Putin in Russia is far higher than it has any right to be, but I'd never casually throw out a "bomb them all, they're all complicit." I think people with these sorts of opinions need therapy. |
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| ▲ | RiverStone 37 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I think that makes sense. My impression is that Iran is much closer to a civil war than Russia is. It’s very polarized. You have to put yourself in the mindset of someone against the regime. They feel that their country was hijacked by an islamic theocracy. This is a regime that forces little girls to cover their body. Dancing and singing in public is illegal. Protesters are hanged. My wife was sent home from school as a kid because her headband didn’t properly cover her forehead. At the age of 30 my wife still has trouble wearing shorts because she is self-conscious about showing her legs. This is the kind of mental trauma that women have to recover from after leaving Iran. And I’ve only skimmed the surface. There is zero sympathy from the anti-regime side for those who support the theocracy. | |
| ▲ | throwawayheui57 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The other side (regime) publicly state “execute them all” and the response is “bomb them all”. To be clear, I’m not agreeing with the sentiments and agree that bombing the infrastructure is awful, just stating my observation of the state media vs opposition voices. |
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| ▲ | samrus 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Your wife doesnt live in iran im assuming? She wont risk her child being killed in preschool by a tomahawk, or having to live without electricity or transportation or drinking water because trump bombed it? As someone from and in a thirdworld country, these expats can be even more arrogant and psychopathic than the imperialists they live under |
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| ▲ | RiverStone an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | My in-laws all live in Iran. My wife has many aunts, uncles, and cousins. I don’t even know how many people - it’s probably 20 to 30 people at least. All in Tehran. My mother-in-law is the most anti-regime person I’ve met. | |
| ▲ | inemesitaffia 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | dbdr 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | False dichotomy. You can be against the current Iranian regime and against intentionally bombing civilians at the same time. | |
| ▲ | lionkor 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This has no place on HN. Please read the guidelines and be a better person moving forward. |
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