| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago |
| > Nobody forced Iran to build all these missiles and to try and build a nuclear weapon or kill their own people or fund actual terrorist groups as designated by the United States and European Union Iran has absolutely run its strategy as a basket case. But proxies aside (which is a big aside), they were fairly self contained until we started hitting them. At least this time around. |
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| ▲ | Cyph0n 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Fairly self contained is an understatement. They proved time and again over the course of the past few years that they were not only pragmatic, but also a much more rational actor than Israel and the US. |
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| ▲ | oa335 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Iran is liked about as much as the US and certainly more than Israel. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/iran/america-has-lost-arab-wo... Iran has fomented discord in a number of countries, most notably Syria and Lebanon. I think they are “rational” in the sense that they are pursuing their goals of eliminating US influence over the Middle East - but many other states in the MidEast would see that goal as “irrational” in itself. | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > They proved time and again over the course of the past few years that they were not only pragmatic, but also a much more rational actor than Israel and the US When? When they drip fed Hezbollah's missiles into Israel's air defences? When they left their ships in port to get bombed? When they convened an in-person meeting at the Supreme Leader's residence? When they didn't even reprimand Hamas after October 7th? Iran has acted according to its regime's interests. But I wouldn't say they prosecuted their goals rationally, pragmatically or even particularly effectively. | | |
| ▲ | kaveh_h 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Who directly in this war has conducted them rationally at at all times? Did Iran drip feed missiles to Hezbollah and Yemen, perhaps. That sort of tactic was used at a much larger scale when US provided arms to Iraq against Iran in their war in the 80s. Israel attacks against it’s neighbors and caused mass refugee flows is also mostly a result of UK, US and France’s foreign policy in the early 20th century when Israel was being established. Israel funded by US of 300 billion dollars is also a kind of proxy. It’s hard for most people to have actual objective views and see things from multiple perspectives and your statement is showing clear bias in this regards. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Who directly in this war has conducted them rationally at at all times? At all times? Nobody. Until last summer, the most strategically buggered was Hamas. Their miscalculations directly lead to a weaker position and a negative return on their goals. That changed following last year’s airstrikes—then it was Iran. (Though in relative terms, probably still Hamas.) Since this war, it’s might be the U.S. > That sort of tactic was used at a much larger scale when US provided arms to Iraq against Iran We didn’t maintain Iraqi arms as a deterrent against Iran. Drip feeding arms into a war of attrition to be a pest has strategic rationale. Drip feeding arms, arms meant to intimidate through the prospect of overwhelming force no less, into air defenses below replacement rates is just dumb. |
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| ▲ | Cyph0n 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [dead] | |
| ▲ | lolcopedope 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
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| ▲ | mamonster 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >Nobody forced Iran to build all these missiles Saddam did. Their missile program is a direct response to the section of the Iran-Iraq war where Saddam flew long range bombers for terror raids (hmm who does this remind me of?) and Iran had no answer beyond shelling border cities with 155m. |
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| ▲ | yellowapple 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > But proxies aside (which is a big aside), they were fairly self contained until we started hitting them. That “big aside” is an understatement, on par with ”but CIA-funded death squads aside the US has been pretty hands-off with Latin America”. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Oh absolutely. But being an idiot with proxies isn't really reason to threaten total war. You go after the proxies and maybe hit ports and production facilities in Iran that arm them. Then commit to keep doing that every time the proxies act up. Nobody needs to liberate Lebanon or Yemen. And nobody needs to try and change the regime in Tehran. |
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