First, look at a map. The strait is entirely contained by Omani and Iranian waters.

Second, I don't have much else to say to you if you actually think that assassinating a head of state in the middle of active negotiations is anything but vile & uncivilized behavior unbecoming of a "civilized" superpower.

Ultimately, this is going to be a major strategic loss for the US and Israel. They have achieved none of the goals stated at the outset of this "operation", outside of perhaps diminishing the Iranian missile manufacturing capabilities & stockpile.

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ericmay 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I guess Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Iraq, and Qatar don’t exist lol. They’re not just attacking ships in one tiny area - ships have to pass through bidirectionally which affects trade for everyone. Stop trying to defend this stuff.

> Ultimately, this is going to be a major strategic loss for the US and Israel. They have achieved none of the goals stated at the outset of this "operation", outside of perhaps diminishing the Iranian missile stockpile.

It has been like 5 weeks and the US and Israel can destroy whatever they find in Iran at their convenience. You are severely over-indexing on Iranian and MAGA anti-war news because the US and Israel don’t go around just announcing everything they’re doing. They don’t need propaganda, bombs work and settle the issue. Why do you think Iran was loading up on all these missiles in the first place? Make it painful to stop them from getting a nuclear weapon and then what? Charge even more to cross the straight. If these guys were benevolent actors they wouldn’t be doing all this stuff and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. There’s no world in which we can have another North Korea - we have seen that movie and it is an awful one where the bad guys win. No imagine North Korea with control of 20% of the world’s oil supply. Can’t happen. Period.

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amluto 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> bombs work and settle the issue

If you want evidence that bombs do not settle the issue, you can consider the current Iran war. The US and Israel have dropped a rather impressive number of bombs on Iran. As far as I know, most of them worked. But whatever issue the leaders of the US and Israel thought they were going to settle is most definitely not settled. The regime has changed from Ayatollah Khamenei to Khamenei, the US’s military position is dramatically worsened, and, while Iran has a lot of rebuilding to do, they are arguably in a strategically stronger position than they were before. Maybe you think Iran’s continued existence “can’t happen period”, but Iran still exists and the US’s ability to anything about it is very much in doubt.

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dante54 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is very rich given that the US, is the only country to use nukes, and Israel has illegal nukes and wont even accept inspection. Nobody charged anyone to cross a strait until your pedophile leaders decided to kill a head of state and bomb a school full of children

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bawolff 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> Israel has illegal nukes

They aren't illegal. The nuclear non proliferation treaty is an optional treaty. The nukes are only illegal if you sign it. Israel hasn't. Most countries sign the treaty because it comes with a lot of benefits, but you don't have to take the carrot.

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adrian_b 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Therefore Iran and North Korea and any others have the right to make nukes.

USA has lost long ago the moral authority to demand from others to not make nuclear weapons.

USA were supposed to be the "good guys", who will not abuse their monopoly on having the most advanced weapons, so that the weaker countries should feel safe enough that they do not need such weapons themselves and that they should respect the non proliferation principles.

However, with all the unprovoked wars started by USA during the last quarter of century, which have caused not only huge damages to the attacked countries, leaving them in a much worse state than before, but which have also irreparably destroyed important parts of the cultural heritage of the entire humanity, nobody can believe any more that it is fine to be helpless against USA, by not having nuclear weapons.

Nobody has done more against the non-proliferation treaty than USA.

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herewulf an hour ago | parent [-]

Exactly. 39 days (so far) of bombing will only convince Iran and other countries around the world of why they need to obtain nuclear weapons at any cost. It is existential.

This current US administration is incredibly shortsighted.

	▲	lostlogin an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Being shortsighted implies you aren’t looking that far ahead. Even the shortsighted could see that the straits would get closed.

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nixon_why69 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I guess Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Iraq, and Qatar don’t exist lol

All of those countries except Iraq facilitated this war, the weapon launches were overwhelmingly from land bases on their territory. If they want to talk with Iran about discounts for expelling american airbases, I'm sure they could find an audience.

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8note 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

they can destroy whatever they want, but are unwilling to move ships in, and unwilling to put boots on the ground.

if the US/israel believed their own propaganda, they'd be doing both of those things.

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lostlogin an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> US and Israel don’t go around just announcing everything they’re doing. They don’t need propaganda

Why does Trump talk so much then? It would be lovely if stopped.

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thaumasiotes 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I guess Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Iraq, and Qatar don’t exist lol. They’re not just attacking ships in one tiny area - ships have to pass through bidirectionally which affects trade for everyone. Stop trying to defend this stuff.

You must have a real problem with the concept of the Panama Canal.

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ericmay 7 hours ago | parent [-]

The Panama Canal is a man-made construct and costs money to operate. How is that comparable?

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thaumasiotes 7 hours ago | parent [-]

It's comparable in that it's a nearly-identical construct that functions in an actually-identical way. Constructing the Strait of Hormuz was cheaper than constructing the Panama Canal.† That doesn't change anything about the fact that it exists.

† Cheaper in an abstract sense. In a more literal sense, the tolling authority, Panama, didn't have to pay for the canal; it was built by the United States.

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ericmay 7 hours ago | parent [-]

> Constructing the Strait of Hormuz

Who dug it up?

	▲	thaumasiotes 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Think of it as reflecting the will of God.

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JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> First, look at a map. The strait is entirely contained by Omani and Iranian waters

The UAE has a stake, too.

> don't have much else to say to you if you actually think that assassinating a head of state in the middle of active negotiations is anything but vile & uncivilized behavior unbecoming of a "civilized" superpower

This statement weakens your argument. (It's also not in line with this forum's guidleines around arguing in good faith.)

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Cyph0n 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I am not talking about stakes; I am talking about territory.

Uh if you say so. Can you point me to the rule stating that I need to keep engaging in a discussion I am not interested in having?

	▲	JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> I am talking about territory Yeah. As you suggested, "look at a map." The UAE controls most of the Musandam Peninsula. > that I need to keep engaging You don't. But you also don't need to storm off.