| ▲ | SunshineTheCat 6 hours ago |
| This hit the nail on the head. I find much of the HN community insightful and interesting, but in terms of consumer feedback (especially in a B2C environment) I wouldn't touch feedback here with a 10-foot pole. I don't mean that to be an insult, quite the opposite. Most people here are power users. But that is a galaxy away from how the average user interacts with the internet. |
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| ▲ | beloch 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| "Why do I need to download a 100+ MB app, give it permission to track my location, and let it run background processes just to browse through a restaurant menu, buy a ticket, or scroll through a list of posts?" ------------------- Hardware/software companies have, historically, targeted power users because regular users listen to them. The companies producing these apps do so because they can benefit from exploiting the data of regular users, but risk little blowback from power users if they keep their web versions up to date and in good shape. That doesn't mean power users should ignore the presence of these apps however. We should be telling regular users to avoid them for their own safety. We should also be worried that, if we stay quiet and let regular users flock to apps, the motivation to maintain web access will be eroded. When all power users vanish into a single percentage point and a platform achieves total dominance over the alternatives, companies might well choose to focus on only apps. |
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| ▲ | beams_of_light 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | This cuts to the heart of it for me. I will not install Meta or LinkedIn apps on my phone because they have been found to be very intrusive. |
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| ▲ | KellyCriterion 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > that is a galaxy away from how the average user interacts with the internet Exactly! Esp if you just move away "one tile" from tech/IT or business-power-users, most people are more or less clueless what they are doing/have to do with a computer. Yes, we are in a bubble here - as with every niche/special interest topic: It would be same for me if I would join a "car tuning event" or similar - Im just a car user, and I do not know of all these details and nuts & bolts |
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| ▲ | coffe2mug 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Exactly! Esp if you just move away "one tile" from tech/IT or business-power-users, most people are more or less clueless what they are doing/have to do with a computer. I don't think so. A majority don't want to. But they are forced by geeks/nerds. Geeks/nerds often show off especially in family/friends parties with older/common folk - telling - I can do this/that. Then average CEO or parent is forced to get a smartphone. Next the geek/nerd - has no time to maintain the computer/laptop of the parent. Or loses patience explaining updates/double-click/avoid scammer installing software. Then - boom - geek son/daughter - if smart gets a decent pixel/iphone - otherwise gets a shitty Android device - installs everything there. Moves on. And finally remember it is the young same geek/nerd that will eventually do programming for FAANG/palantir etc. which forces people to install apps, degrade privacy, worsen webapp/websites - all for money. | | |
| ▲ | array_key_first 10 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I think this is missing that older people are not stupid, and they could learn how to use software if they spent the time. Many older folks used even more complicated software in the past, and then they lost the skill or didn't keep it up to date. A lot of older people rely on yougins for tech support not because they have to, but because it's easy learned helplessness. A large part of this is ALSO software's fault, though. Software changes too quick and for no reason. Software these days lies to users, erroding confidence. |
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| ▲ | BloondAndDoom an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Very fair point, as an experienced B2B guy myself whenever someone ask me advice about B2C in like “I have no idea”. Been doing this for 25 years but B2C especially today geared towards younger audience is impossible to related for me. I assume majority of the demographics of HN similar |
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| ▲ | clickety_clack 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Wait, you mean typical consumers _don’t_ want to build my terminal-based TUI app from source? |
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| ▲ | sdfjkhdfjkdhs 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > Most people here are power users. As an actual power user, I take exception to this comment. Most people here are NOT power users. I've lost count of how many arguments I've seen for example where someone Just Can't Believe anyone would have a good reason to have more than 5-10 browser tabs open at a time. Meanwhile I've got a list of thousands and growing. Or look at the dogged adherence to Windows even to this day after decades of Microsoft abuse, and long spiels about the difficulty and complexity of the Linux command line. Especially when it comes to systemd for example, where one of the most common complaints against sysv is "eww, shell scripts? yuck!" I don't call these people power users, or recognize them as peers in the realm of technology. The difference between them and me is like the difference between them and the commoner who knows nothing at all about tech. Maybe we need a geek ranking system or something. |
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| ▲ | sumtechguy 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Honest question do you really use all of those tabs? As a small handful of tabs user I use the bookmark feature to hold things I want to keep for later. ctrl-d and it is in the list. Even then 99% of the time I open it again and go 'why did I keep this'. I get it that it is your workflow. Just sort of curious why you would consider that a 'power user' thing? Would not saving them to the bookmark list be more of 'power user' sort of thing to do? | | |
| ▲ | SunshineTheCat 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't know why, but equating how many tabs a person has open to how much of a power user they are sounds like something right out of a south park episode. | | |
| ▲ | doubled112 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Apparently bookmarks and self-hosting a read it later web app on my home server but only having 5 tabs open at a time makes me a filthy casual. | | |
| ▲ | wtallis 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think you failed to correctly apply DeMorgan's laws to the statement you're reacting to. |
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| ▲ | sdfjkhdfjkdhs 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The whole bookmark/tab system really needs to be completely revised. I have a new system I'm thinking about for my Chromium fork which will be radically different. More like a full-page "new tab" screen where everything can be visualized and sorted into different projects etc. Just look at how most people do a search, for instance. These days for me it often involves 20-30 tabs, or even more, due to the horrific state of internet search. Many results have to be explored, many links from those results also explored, more searches done to narrow in on the precise keyword needed to bring up some hopefully good results, etc. And I can't close all that until the answer is found, as I may need to backtrack, so they just pile up. It's really quite ridiculous how much work it takes to find a good answer these days. Compare with the typical person who just does one search with some suboptimal keywords then clicks on the first link, or starts dutifully absorbing the AI-generated garbage. Orders of magnitude difference. I have dozens of projects I'm actively working on just for my Linux distro. Dozens of tabs open for things like X11 window management, for instance, or some info on C++ modules for another project. Lots of tabs open for a hardware project. All kinds of balls are up in the air here. Why put any of this stuff in bookmarks which is a waste of time and energy to manage, when I can just leave it in the tab list, organized in multiple windows spread across different desktops? (I have 64 desktops on my 55" plasma display.) (lol @ the other guy's reply. That didn't age well.) | | |
| ▲ | order-matters 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | hey, light power user here - for a while I was using tabXpert browser extension for this, but they have recently changed to paid-only and I havent had a chance to check out their competition but might end up just buying it anyway it groups sessions, not just tabs, so i can (for example) have all my banking websites together as a session that i can open and close as a window of tabs. the convenience is it organizes the sessions as named things that i can manage in a UI. transfer tabs from one session to another, close tabs, check tabs that have been closed in that session, etc. if you know of any tools like this or an easy way to manage it independently without a 3rd party browser extension, I would be interested. Sounds like maybe you are doing something similar but at the desktop level, creating a new desktop to pick up and put down? are they savable and transferable between devices? I like to close everything down at night to run some games with friends, and am going to be building a new comp soon and for various reasons starting fresh with software and importing things as i need them rather than flashing my current setup forward to the new hardware | |
| ▲ | weitendorf 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I agree with this a lot tbh. I think we need to have better support for tiling or something iframe-like in web interfaces. Probably for deep research or focused work, we need something more tree-shaped than the flat tabs-with-back-button structure web browsers expose. | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I've never explored 20-30 search results. Not since Google anyway. If I don't find what I want in the first few I rephrase the search or try a different search engine. The world beyond the first page of results basically doesn't exist. |
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| ▲ | thesuitonym 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This guy thinks he's a power user because he doesn't know how to close tabs. | | |
| ▲ | jsharpe 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Measuring tech skill by how many tabs you have open is like measuring carpentry skill by how disorganized your workshop is. | | |
| ▲ | wtallis 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's a bit insulting to assume that having more than a dozen tabs open must be "disorganized", especially in a context where it is likely that the power user in question is using browser extensions. Something like TreeStyleTab makes it easy to keep hundreds of tabs organized with clear, easily-manipulated structure, and lower friction than manually creating and curating bookmarks. It looks like you're either showing off your own ignorance of tools that enable workflows you can't imagine, or you're assuming that everyone's organization methods must resemble your own habits. | |
| ▲ | sdfjkhdfjkdhs an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | Boxxed 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Or look at the dogged adherence to Windows even to this day after decades of Microsoft abuse Or the people who absolutely refuse to give up Chrome, despite the whole adblock situation. "But I don't like the way Firefox tabs look!" | | |
| ▲ | gretch 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Or the people who absolutely refuse to give up Chrome, despite the whole adblock situation. "But I don't like the way Firefox tabs look!" Or have yourself a learning moment and recognize that how things look matters to a lot of people. And It’s not wrong that they value it differently than you. | |
| ▲ | Markoff an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | what's wrong with Cromite or Ultimatum on Android or Vivaldi on desktop? FF is both on desktop and mobile inferior product with devs hating their own users |
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| ▲ | 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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