Microsoft was found guilty of using their market power to do product bundling, which is illegal. The fact that they had dominance in the market is not what they got popped for, nor is it illegal.

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longislandguido 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Let me know how I can unbundle Safari from macOS or iOS.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

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chongli 13 hours ago | parent [-]

It's possible on the Mac, but it's not easy. Apple uses an immutable system volume on macOS, so you can't just delete the Safari app like you would a user-installed app. To actually delete Safari you need to disable System Integrity Protection and reboot.

There are plenty of Linux distributions that use immutable root volumes. They protect the user in a huge number of ways by preventing the system from getting hosed (either by accident or by malicious unauthorized users / malware). Apple made the decision to do this for their users, and it has prevented a HUGE amount of tech support calls, as well as led to millions of happy users with trouble-free computers.

It also hasn't stopped users from installing Chrome and/or Firefox on their Macs, and millions of ordinary users have.

	▲	AnthonyMouse 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> It also hasn't stopped users from installing Chrome and/or Firefox on their Macs, and millions of ordinary users have. You seem to be ignoring the part where you can't install the Chome and/or Firefox browser engines on iOS and the apps with those names on that platform are just skins over Safari. Notice in particular that the iOS version of "Firefox" can't support extensions.

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sroussey 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You just described Apple.

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selectodude 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Apple has not, to my knowledge, required OEMs to bundle Safari with macOS alongside threats to withhold macOS if they don’t comply expressly to put Firefox out of business.

But hey, maybe some weird shit happened during the clone years that I’m not privy to.

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SvenL 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Apple requires Developers to use AppStore with their App alongside threats to withhold their App if they don’t comply.

Just an example… and yes, I know the EU ruling but it’s still fitting.

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pdpi 10 hours ago | parent [-]

The crucially important subtlety here is that Apple requiring developers to use the App Store doesn't leverage an existing monopoly (like what Microsoft had with Windows).

Compare the games console market. Nintendo is allowed to say you have to go through them to sell games for the Switch, ditto Microsoft with the Xbox. Sony doing the same thing with the Playstation is exactly equivalent, but they're approaching the sort of market dominance where it might soon be illegal for them (and them alone) to do that in some markets.

	▲	AnthonyMouse 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> The crucially important subtlety here is that Apple requiring developers to use the App Store doesn't leverage an existing monopoly (like what Microsoft had with Windows). Copyright (e.g. over iOS) and patent (e.g. over iPhone hardware) are explicitly government-granted monopolies. Having that monopoly is allowed on purpose, but that isn't the same as it not existing, and having a government-granted monopoly and leveraging into another market are two quite distinct things. > Compare the games console market. Okay, all of the consoles that require you to sell you to sell through their stores shouldn't be able to do that either. > but they're approaching the sort of market dominance where it might soon be illegal for them (and them alone) to do that in some markets. Wait, your theory is that a console with ~50% market share has market dominance but Apple with ~60% of US phones doesn't?