Illegal immigration brings masses of people from more corrupt, disordered, and perhaps lower average intelligence societies into the US in conditions that make it hard for even the ones who are capable of assimilation to assimilate. It also constitutes a massive flouting of the law for the benefit of business, which sets a bad precedent and lowers public trust in institutions. It also contributes to rising racial tensions that encourage the growth of ethnic tribalism and weaken trust in liberalism.

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avidiax 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If you really want to get rid of illegal immigrants, you don't need ICE doing sweeps.

Just make them unemployable. Setup an effective employment eligibility system, and require that employers verify the workers in the system before any payment over $100. Collect biometrics from workers and verify against IRS records. Employers that flout this get fines of 10x wages paid, up to N% of revenue, and maybe jailtime for owners and managers that knowingly violate.

What we have in the U.S. is a bunch of people and politicians loudly decrying illegal immigration and illegal employment, but enjoying the fruits of that illegal employment while paying a fraction of what legal workers would have to be paid.

There's huge appetite for a police state against the little guy, and no appetite for that same police state against business owners and managers.

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AnthonyMouse 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

There's a better way than that. The way the US tax system actually works is incredibly misleading:

1) We pretend to have an income tax but then make it work like a consumption tax in practice. Ordinary people put earnings in excess of spending in a 401k and defer the tax until they want to spend the money. Rich people defer capital gains indefinitely until they want to spend the money. It's an income tax on paper but a consumption tax in practice, and doing it that way is much more complicated than just using a consumption tax.

2) We pretend to have a progressive income tax, but then impose benefits phase outs that fully cancel out the difference in marginal rates between the poor and the rich. Convert the benefits to cash and eliminate the phase outs and you get something which is equally if not more progressive, significantly more efficient and dramatically less complicated.

So, you can throw all of that out and replace it with a flat rate consumption tax and a UBI and it would be as close to a Pareto optimal improvement as anything in politics ever is.

Which also makes a huge amount of headway against the illegal immigration problem, because another disadvantage of pretending to have an income tax is that it effectively subsidizes anyone paying people under the table since then they're not paying the tax. Whereas if people working under the table still have to pay the consumption tax on everything they buy, and they also don't receive the UBI because they're not lawful residents, they'd be at a disadvantage relative to ordinary citizens, instead of the existing system where breaking the rules makes you better off.

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hax0ron3 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I agree that your idea would be better. That said, it is still quite possible that even Trump's immigration approach is overall more good than bad for the country.

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unsnap_biceps 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's really not. They're deporting less people than Biden did during the same time[1]. They're spending record amounts of money per person deported as well.

I don't disagree that we should be deporting people faster, but this is not the way to accomplish that goal at all. Nor should we be building huge detention facilities. We should be making the process go smoother and faster, not holding people.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_in_the_second_Trum...

	▲	ChrisGreenHeur 16 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		If you let in 100 and then throw out 90 you have thrown out many more than if you let in 10 but throw out 30. But the end result is better.
	▲	hax0ron3 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		Even if Trump's approach is worse than Biden's, which I'm not sure of, that still does not mean it is bad for the country. Counting deportations alone does not count people who decide not to come at all. Also, note that I did not say that we should necessarily be deporting more people. I am actually pretty neutral on illegal immigration. But I am trying to address the question of what is good for the country, which is a different thing from what my personal preferences are.
	▲	pfannkuchen 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Net?

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fakedang 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Trump's immigration approach is not an approach - it's just an excuse for him to create his own Gestapo.

What was the point of sending ICE, a "domestic" agency, to the Winter Olympics, or letting them take over duties from the TSA? What does an "Immigration and Customs Enforcement" agency have anything to do at a foreign country? What's the point of the Secret Service then?