| ▲ | breve 16 hours ago |
| There's no point supporting these parasitic business models. Use royalty-free video and audio formats. AV1 for video: https://aomedia.org/specifications/av1/ And Opus for audio: https://opus-codec.org/ |
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| ▲ | josephg 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| AV1 / Opus where we can. But H264 is far better supported. For example, Safari doesn't include a software AV1 decoder. So AV1 videos only work in safari on M3 or later laptops, and iPhone 15 or later phones. H264 is the compatibility king. https://caniuse.com/av1 |
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| ▲ | galad87 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | Safari, or better, macOS and iOS include a software AV1 decoder (libdav1d), but it's used only to decode avif, and to generate file previews in Finder. |
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| ▲ | WithinReason 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Dolby just sued Snapchat over patents for using AV1: https://www.techspot.com/news/111865-dolby-sues-snap-over-vi... |
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| ▲ | gausswho 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | And that's when you know they're afraid. Dolby's case sounds like a desperate moonshot. |
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| ▲ | out_of_protocol 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| * VP9 where AV1 is not available (default YouTube codec, almost universally hardware-supported). Also universally supported .webm is vp9+opus - which mostly used as modern .gif |
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| ▲ | ksec 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >And Opus for audio: https://opus-codec.org/ Just use AAC-LC, Redhat declares it patent expired and has the widest compatibility besides only mp3. At 192Kbps or above it is as good as Opus. |
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| ▲ | mdavid626 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| AV1 lacks hw support… |
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| ▲ | out_of_protocol 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | VP9 works well too and more supported (default YouTube codec) | |
| ▲ | breve 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My laptop has hardware AV1 encoding and decoding. My TV has AV1 decoding. My phone has AV1 decoding. None of these devices are particularly new. And don't underestimate dav1d (https://www.videolan.org/projects/dav1d.html). You can comfortably play AV1 video in software on your phone. Try it with VLC. | | |
| ▲ | petcat 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | > You can comfortably play AV1 video in software on your phone Maybe for about 15 minutes before your battery is drained to 20%. I'm not aware of any software video decoder at all that won't unacceptably heat up your phone and kill your battery. | | |
| ▲ | daneel_w 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You really are underestimating just how far e.g. Apple's mobile CPUs have come in terms of raw performance and power-efficiency. | |
| ▲ | breve 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why say maybe? Why not simply try it for yourself? | | |
| ▲ | petcat 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't need to try it myself to know that software video decoding on the CPU is not a viable solution on mobile phones. | | |
| ▲ | breve 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | Of course it is. Even the iPhone 7 from 2016 can play 1080p AV1 video. Why did you spend all that money on your phone if you're not going to exercise the hardware? | | |
| ▲ | smilespray 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not OP, but 2hr battery time for video playback vs 20hr would be the entire point of this thread. HW decoding is an order of magnitude more efficient. | | |
| ▲ | breve 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | That isn't the benchmark set by petcat. petcat's goal post is 15 minutes to 20% battery with AV1 playback. It's baffling that petcat won't simply try it. Maybe he has awkwardly discovered he does have hardware AV1 support after all. I've still got my old iPhone 7. I'll dust it off and do the experiment. I think it'll do at least 90 minutes in VLC. | | |
| ▲ | petcat 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Software video decoding on a CPU is woefully inefficient and will drain your battery. Full stop. > I've still got my old iPhone 7. I'll dust it off and do the experiment. I think it'll do at least 90 minutes in VLC. Your "old iPhone 7" probably wont even boot up now, let alone play 1080p AV1 video for more than 5 minutes. Go ahead, try it. | | |
| ▲ | breve 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Your "old iPhone 7" probably wont even boot up now, let alone play 1080p AV1 video for more than 5 minutes. None of your predictions came true. In fact, you were more than 24 times wrong about it. My 10-year-old iPhone 7 with its 10-year-old battery and a small crack in the screen, hardware which was released before AV1 was released, did boot up. I charged it to 99%. I downloaded a 4 minute music video. It's 1080p25 1609kbps AV1 video, 48khz 122kbps stereo Opus audio in an MP4 container. Using VLC 3.7.2 (which uses dav1d for decoding AV1), I played the video continuously on repeat. It took 122 minutes for the battery to go from 99% to 20%. At 20% the phone switched to low power mode and kept playing the video. I should have put it in low power mode the whole time. I'll try that next to see if it can go longer. In the meantime, what we can conclude is that the iPhone 7 is mighty. dav1d, most especially, is mighty. petcat isn't. |
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| ▲ | TheMiddleMan 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's coming along nicely https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Hardware_encoding_and_deco... Also decoding on a reasonably powerful (non-accelerated) cpu is fast enough for 1080p, not ideal for battery life but still. |
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| ▲ | cwillu 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| “Access Advance and Avanci have published rates for a pool asserting content royalties across AVC, HEVC, VP9, VVC, and AV1 that could push major platforms toward nine-figure annual exposure.” |
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| ▲ | breve 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, they've made claims on AV1, claims that have never been tested in court. You need to understand that these are parasitic businesses. They didn't develop AV1. They didn't contribute to AV1. But they will make any claim they think they can get away with. Show me the court case they've won that validates their claims on AV1. | | |
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| ▲ | jmclnx 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I was going to suggest you missed vorbis ogg. So I went looking for a link, I found out this: > Since 2013, the Xiph.Org Foundation has stated that the use of Vorbis should be deprecated in favor of the Opus codec I never heard of Opus, so some links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorbis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_(audio_format) From what I can find, seems opus only supports audio. ogg also has a video format (ogv), odd it is suggested ogg was superseded by opus. Maybe I am missing something ? |
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| ▲ | breve 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Ogg is a container format. It contains audio and video tracks: https://www.xiph.org/ogg/ It's like Matroska: https://www.matroska.org/what_is_matroska.html Or MP4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP4_file_format | |
| ▲ | daneel_w 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ogg is the container, Vorbis is the audio codec, and colloquially people just called Vorbis-encoded audio "ogg" because of the ogg container. Vorbis was hit-or-miss. In some cases it did better on same or lower bitrate than MP3 encoded by LAME, in some cases worse. It also suffered an entirely new category of "chirpy/tweety" artefacts similar to what MP3 exhibits at very low bitrates, but with Vorbis they showed up even at nominal bitrates during certain complex spectral patterns. I was a vocal proponent of Vorbis back when it surfaced, but soon changed stance when realizing how unreliable it was quality-wise. | | |
| ▲ | thaumasiotes 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | > and colloquially people just called Vorbis-encoded audio "ogg" because of the ogg container. I would bet that the primary reason wasn't the container format, which nobody really cares about and most users wouldn't have been aware of, but rather the fact that the file extension was '.ogg'. | | |
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