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stingraycharles 8 hours ago

So your solution would be to do nothing?

Cloudflare is an excellent solution for many things. The internet was designed to withstand a nuclear war, but it also wasn’t designed for the level of hostility that goes on on the internet these days.

nmcfarl an hour ago | parent | next [-]

But cloudflare is also just difficult, I’m on Starlink (because where I am my only other option is Hughes net), and my browser of choice is Safari. No vpn, and only boring ad blockers.

I routinely blocked by Cloudflare from viewing things and occasionally, I am blocked from buying things. Just this weekend, it was $100 worth of athletic wear. I just keep clicking the box and it never lets me complete the purchase. After the 7th or 10th time I go and find another vendor that would actually sell to me. I was more annoyed than usual because the website already had my credit card at this point – but as this article proves there are reasons to block an order even with a credit card.

nottorp 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Cloudflare is becoming a single point of failure. That is not a solution.

And these people weren't validating the email address on signup. To "reduce friction" i guess.

sdevonoes 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Cloudflare is not the solution

stingraycharles 6 hours ago | parent [-]

What is a better solution?

sarchertech 4 hours ago | parent [-]

You have to think hard about the problem and apply individual solutions. Cloudflare didn’t work for the author anyway. Even if they had more intrusive settings enabled it would have just added captchas, which wouldn’t likely have stopped this particular attacker (and you can do on your own easily anyway).

In this case I assume the reason the attacker used the change credit card form was because the only other way to add a credit card is when signing up, which charges your card the subscription fee (a much larger amount than $1).

So the solution is don’t show the change card option to customers who don’t already have an active (valid) card on file.

A more generic solution is site wide rate limiting for anything that allows someone to charge very small amounts to a credit card.

Or better yet don’t have any way to charge very small amounts to cards. Do a $150 hold instead of $1 when checking a new card

As far as cloudflare centralization goes though, you’re not going to solve this problem by appealing to individual developers to be smarter and do more work. It’s going to take regulation. It’s a resiliency and national security issue, we don’t want a single company to function as the internet gatekeeper. But I’ve said the same about Google for years.

HumanOstrich 3 hours ago | parent [-]

None of your solutions seem useful in this case, especially a $150 hold. Site-wide rate limiting for payment processing? Too complicated, high-maintenance, and easy to mess up.

You can't block 100% of these attempts, but you can block a large class of them by checking basic info for the attempted card changes like they all have different names and zip codes. Combine that with other (useful) mitigations. Maybe getting an alert that in the past few hours or days even, 90% of card change attempts have failed for a cluster of users.

withinboredom 37 minutes ago | parent [-]

A $150 hold would clearly be noticed by the victim, so the attacker wouldn't even try it.