This actually sounds a bit like a C/C++ argument. Roughly: Yes, you can easily write incorrect code but when some basic coding conventions are followed, UAF/double free/buffer overflows/... are just not a problem. After all, some of the world's most complex software is built with C / C++. If you couldn't write software reliably with C / C++, that could never be the case.

I.e. just because teams manage to do something with a tool does not mean the tool didn't impede (or vice versa, enable) the result. It just says that it's possible. A qualitative comparison with other tools cannot be established on that basis.

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Joel_Mckay 2 days ago | parent [-]

There are folks trying to make HDL easier, and vendor neutral. Not sure why people were upset by mentioning the project...

https://github.com/amaranth-lang/amaranth

While VHDL makes a fun academic toy language, it has always been Verilog in the commercial settings. Both languages can develop hard to trace bugs when the optimizer decides to simply remove things it thinks are unused. =3

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tverbeure 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> While VHDL makes a fun academic toy language, ...

I spent the first half of my career working at some of the largest companies at the time on huge communication ASICs that were all written in VHDL, there was no Verilog in sight.

As much as I prefer to write Verilog now, VHDL is without question a more robust and better specified language, with features that Verilog only gained a decade later through SystemVerilog.

There's a reason why almost all major EDA tool support VHDL just as well as Verilog.

	▲	Joel_Mckay 18 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Note, amaranth supports both VHDL and Verilog language targets. Cheers =3

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rzerowan 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How does this compare to chisel [1] , i never could get around the whole scala tooling - seemed a bit over the top. Though i guess it is a bit more mature and probably more enterprisey

[1]https://github.com/chipsalliance/chisel

	▲	Joel_Mckay 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		> i never could get around the whole scala tooling scala is popular in places like Alphabet, that apparently allow go & scala projects in production. However, I agree while scala is very powerful in some ways, it just doesn't have a fun aesthetic. If one has to go spelunking for scalable hardware accelerators, a vendors linux DMA llvm C/C++ API is probably less fragile. For my simple projects, one zynq 7020 per node is way more than we should ever need. =3

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nsteel 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I disagree. We've produced numerous complex chips with VHDL over the last 30 years. Most of the vendor models we have to integrate with are Verilog, so perhaps it is more popular, but that's no problem for us. We've found plenty of bugs for both VHDL and Verilog in the commercial tooling we use, neither is particularly worse (providing you're happy to steer clear of the more recent VHDL language features).

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oelang 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

VHDL still dominates in medical, military, avionics, space etc. and it's generally considered the safer RTL language, any industry that requires functional safety seems to prefer it.

It's also the most used language for FPGA in Europe but that's probably mostly cultural.