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Animats 4 days ago

Most of the solid state batteries have far less thermal runaway problem than lithium-ion batteries. At this point, several companies have working demo solid state batteries, but the price is far too high. Mercedes has one demo car with a solid state battery. Ducati has one motorcycle. Donut Labs just has one demo cell, not even enough for their motorcycle. The technology works but is so expensive there aren't even multiple prototypes.

Samsung says they will ship some solid state batteries in watches and earbuds this year, where the batteries are so tiny they're affordable. Even solid state batteries for phones are still too costly. Everybody in the industry is trying to solve the production price problem. Consensus is that the price starts to come down around 2028 or so.

Lithium iron phosphate batteries don't have a thermal runaway problem, either, but they have about half the Wh/Kg of lithium-ion, so they're not popular for portable devices.

Ten years out, lithium-ion batteries will probably be obsolete technology and totally prohibited on aircraft.

Dylan16807 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Donut Labs just has one demo cell, not even enough for their motorcycle.

They sent in multiple cells for lab testing, but more importantly the second Donut demo was a motorcycle charging.

Animats 4 days ago | parent [-]

Donut Labs: "The Future of Powering Electric Vehicles Is Here Today with Donut Lab Introducing New High-Performance Solid State Donut Batteries Ready for OEM Use Now and Powering All 2026 Model Verge Motorcycles On the Road in Q1 2026."[1]

They have until Tuesday.

[1] https://www.donutlab.com/ces-battery-announcement/

Dylan16807 3 days ago | parent [-]

Yeah, but lacking proof on the large scale is different from only having one sample.

HaloZero 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So wait if solid state is too expensive? What replaces lithium ion batteries? What breakthrough do you expect in solid state to make it cheaper in 2028?

jacquesm 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

What is your take on Lithium-Titanate (sp?) cells?

addaon 4 days ago | parent [-]

Not the original poster, but I’m a fan, in appropriate applications. Robust, fast discharge, long cycle life, and can charge and discharge at lower temperatures than most other chemistries (-20C and -40C, for what I’m using). Downsides are limited availability and sizing, and absolute crap energy density even compared to LFP.

jacquesm 4 days ago | parent [-]

How many / what size do you have?

addaon 4 days ago | parent [-]

I have the 2.9 Ah SCiBs for form factor testing, and the 10 Ah Shenquans for some functional testing. I’m eagerly awaiting the 5.5 Ah SCiB — the application is designed around a 20S1P 5.5 Ah SCiB string.

jacquesm 3 days ago | parent [-]

Thank you. The moment these have reasonable pricing I'm ordering up enough to put together a 200 KWh home battery. It isn't quite economical yet but there is no way I'm putting such a quantity of Lithium-Ion in anything near or in a dwelling.

addaon 3 days ago | parent [-]

Most LTO cells are focused on bigger cells than what I need — 20 Ah to 100 Ah is much better covered than 5 to 10 Ah. Unfortunately aircraft are weight-critical.