| ▲ | kingleopold 4 hours ago | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.” ― Alexander Fraser Tytler | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | kergonath an hour ago | parent | next [-] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
> the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. Except, of course, that this is historically wrong. Transitions from democracy to dictatorship are common, but I cannot think of one that happened because of "loose fiscal policy". | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | epsteingpt an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The whole reason the US founding fathers are amazing is that they proved him concretely incorrect. US will celebrate 250 years of democracy this year. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | xpe 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
"A witty saying proves nothing." ― Voltaire 1767 Tytler's quote is trying to say too much. It might be acceptable as historical commentary, but it carries little weight to me; it seems overly confident about what the future might hold.* Tytler died in 1813. We have learned much since then: much about human nature, institutions, experimentation, statistics, evidence, constructing good theories, and governance.** Sure, the quote is worth some reflection; it has grains of truth, but it should not be given undue weight. * I am not saying "we can predict nothing"! Far from it. I am ok with predictions (even bold ones) to the extent they are deeply rooted in the best understandings and models we have available. ** I'm talking about what motivated people figure out through careful reasoning and evidence, not simply how the median person funnels information from their ears to their mouth. And I'm certainly not commending the effort and thought that the median person puts into stewarding their democracy (if they have one). While we (in the USA, for the time being?) have something like one. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | mpalmer 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
You know, it's very funny. This is the most reproduced quote from Tytler, and yet you also have these chestnuts: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | mpalmer 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The quotee would be surprised to see how little voting is being done by the people receiving the largesse in the last 20 years. Not to mention how little voters had to do with the decisions which caused the deficit to rise the most. The Iraq war, poor handling of COVID, tax cuts for the wealthy. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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