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| ▲ | kube-system 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Because intent isn't something that you can acquire from the actions of third parties Second, the VAST majority of guns in the US sit in gun safes and closets and never shoot anyone. Finally, shooting someone is not necessarily an illegal action -- gun manufacturers market their products for self defense or sporting reasons -- I have never seen one market their products for use in criminal acts. |
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| ▲ | joering2 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well, I have never seen Cox advertising their internet cable as a way to download pirated movies, but here we are. |
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| ▲ | ApolloFortyNine 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There are around ~500 millions guns in the US according to a quick Google. There's a lot of crime in the US, but I doubt even 1% of the guns have been used in a crime. Also you can buy a gun and just shoot it at a range. |
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| ▲ | shevy-java 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I doubt even 1% of the guns have been used in a crime. Guns are used to inflict harm. Why would the arms producer not be held accountable? He produced the gun. The gun is the tool to cause harm, injury, potentially death. If service providers are held responsible for users, arms producers must also be held accountable. Financially too. | | |
| ▲ | burningChrome 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >> Guns are used to inflict harm. Why would the arms producer not be held accountable? Notably by criminals who have never, and will never abide by the copious amounts of federal and state laws that currently regulate how people are able to use guns. If that is the case, how does holding manufacturers responsible for something completely out of their control make sense? Its like saying car manufacturers should be responsible for drunk drivers who kill others in collisions. Because they should've known their cars would be used by someone to do something dangerous and against the law? | | |
| ▲ | MSFT_Edging 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | The gun companies have incentive to sell as many guns as they can, to the consumerist base of gun hobbyists. There are 500M guns in the US because it's a hobby based on buying and collecting. Due to the amount of guns in circulation, it is common for guns to be stolen. Therefore, there are more "illegal" guns in circulation due to the consumerist nature of gun owners, and the companies making money on selling these guns. Without a large amount of guns in circulation, there would not be a similarly large amount of illegal guns in circulation, as they almost all came from a factory somewhere. I like guns but I am so tired of people acting like the 2nd amendment insists it's their right to treat firearms like goddamn funkopops. In states with legal marijuana, we set limits on the number of plants one can keep on their property, yet there is no limit to how many firearms one can poorly store for a slightly competent criminal to come collect under their nose. No liability for poorly storing them either unless it's in the immediate vicinity of a toddler. |
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| ▲ | kube-system 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You are oversimplifying the situation beyond the entire point of this ruling -- Cox internet is sometimes used to commit copyright infringement, but it is designed and marketed for legal purposes. Guns are also sometimes used for illegal purposes, but they are designed and marketed for legal purposes. | | | |
| ▲ | freedomben 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Just curious, do you feel the same way about knife manufacturers? Or automotive makers? | | | |
| ▲ | JCTheDenthog 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | By that logic Toyota should be liable if someone uses a Tacoma to ram a crowd. | |
| ▲ | dwedge 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Strawman argument. Inflicting harm does not automatically equal a crime. And you're also disregarding the use of guns as a deterrent. |
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| ▲ | JCTheDenthog 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Even the lowest estimates (the National Crime Victimization Survey) estimates annual defensive gun uses in the US at 60-80k per year. Highest estimates are at around 2 million. But even then, most usage is at ranges, and far outstrips crime usage. |
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| ▲ | joering2 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't think it matters in the light of this ruling. Cox could have argued that 99.9% of their data packets are Netflix and downloads of free Linux ISOs, yet neither court nor the ruling cares. |
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| ▲ | clickety_clack 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Statistically speaking, most guns are not used for crime, and even among uses, crime is probably small compared to military or even hunting etc. |
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| ▲ | Tuna-Fish 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's not at all what this ruling says? To win, Cox did not need to prove that they sold their product without intent to infringe. To win, the plaintiff would have had to prove that Cox had intent. The difference in burden of proof is in practice massive. |
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| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
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| ▲ | dwedge 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is an instance of begging the question "if the overwhelming amount of used guns are used to accompany crime then how can you argue otherwise". But there's no substance to your premise. 400 million owned guns, 50,000 deaths a year, it's a long way from the overwhelming majority. |
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| ▲ | joering2 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Absolutely. I would also agree that 99% of data delivered by Cox is not pirated movies. |
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| ▲ | vetrom 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > where overwhelming amount of USED guns are used to accompany crime I do not think this holds up to a factual analysis if you look at any cross section of defensive gun use reports. I don't think that parts actually relevant here though. If you were to use a similar standard as the USSC court applies here: Impressions don't matter to qualify for inducement. The action must be actively invited. |
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| ▲ | dionian 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| it would help if all cases of self defense were cataloged. Right now it only hits the stats if a crime is not averted. |