It was certainly notable that so many HNers seemed absolutely certain that the Kurds would come to the USA's aid, ignoring the fact that America had facilitated the one-sided ceasefire imposed on Rojava just weeks before.

A few more sceptical voices brought this up, and were told repeatedly that it didn't matter because the Kurds in Syria and Turkey are very different from those in Iraq & Iran.

And there's certainly something in that - but it ignored the clunkingly obvious point that, if America had been thinking at all strategically, a bit more support of Rojava and would have demonstrated to all Kurds that "looking west" would be rewarded.

It has to be hard for Americans to realise that their government has pissed so much of the world off so badly. I suspect we'll see further such errors in analysis and response before the new reality fully sinks in.

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simonh 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Not forgetting Trump personally ordering the withdrawal of all US forces in Northern Syria in his first term, on a weekend so none of the generals were around to talk him out of it.

This resulted in the Turks moving in, massacring all the Kurds they could find, and a few thousand ISIS prisoners (including 60 'high value targets') escaping as the Kurds guarding them fled for their lives.

However Trump said this didn't pose any threat to the US because "They’re going to be escaping to Europe.”

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/trumps-syria-withdrawal-i...

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TitaRusell 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Turkey- a key US ally- will never allow the formation of an independent Kurdish nation near their borders.

	▲	roryirvine 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Sure, and the question really came down to how much autonomy they'd end up getting within an integrated Syria. The answer turns out to be "not much". And to make matters worse, Trump didn't even make an attempt to let them down gently - saying "the Kurds were paid tremendous amounts of money, were given oil and other things. So they were doing it for themselves more so than they were doing it for us"... ...and then, 4 weeks later, expected their Iraqi and Iranian cousins to ride to the USA's aid!

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pjc50 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> so many HNers seemed absolutely certain that the Kurds would come to the USA's aid

I must have missed those, but I would expect HN to be able to count. There really are not a lot of Kurds.

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generic92034 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Possibly they think they can make up what they lost in good will and cooperation with blackmail and pressure. It is doubtful it will work as reliably as in the past, though (second order effects even left aside).

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jmye 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It has to be hard for Americans to realise that their government has pissed so much of the world off so badly.

It is not hard, at all, for roughly 1/3 of Americans to understand this. Another 1/3 don't think it, or anything past their TikTok feed, matters. The last 1/3 thought Team America was a documentary.

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GJim 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> It is not hard, at all, for roughly 1/3 of Americans to understand this.

Sorry, but I don't think they do understand.

America has managed to piss off Canada FFS. And lets be honest, you've got to work really hard to piss off the Canadians.

Frankly, Americans (former) allies have seen the American people VOTE for Trump. Twice. Even if Trump goes tomorrow, the (former) allies know what a significant proportion of the US people want in a leader, and so may be in store at the next election.

	▲	GolfPopper 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I can't speak for anyone else, but the depth of our self-disgrace is pretty damned obvious. (What I can or should do personally is less obvious.) Having elected Donald Trump twice - atop all our other failings - is a giant screaming proclamation that the United States is unfit for, and undeserving of, continued existence as a state or government. The responsible thing to do is to hold a Constitutional Convention and dissolve the damned thing, and then the individual states can figure out how they ought to go forward from there. (I don't think current U.S. States are anything like perfect but they're what we have left once the United States government is gone.)
	▲	jmye 15 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> Sorry, but I don't think they do understand. Sorry, but 1/3 of the country is deeply, keenly aware of what an absolute fucking disgrace the last year and two months have been for us on an international stage. There's no delusion, here, that Canadians are excited about being threatened with an invasion, in spite of your silly black/white post.

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vkou 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean, I assumed that any group of people stupid enough to be betrayed by the department of state twice would be first in line to get betrayed a third and fourth time.

It hardly seemed an unreasonable assumption.