I see mpalmer counters each specific claim, dashersw shifts to a slightly different argument rather than directly addressing the rebuttal.

One guy is doing the tech founder equivalent of a TED Talk ("my thing is more native and requires fewer concepts!") while another is quietly pointing out that the emperor has no clothes, and has receipts. One keeps doubling down because this is clearly his baby, while other is just some experienced dev who's watched too many "simple mutable state" frameworks turn into maintenance nightmares. One person is selling a vision. The other is explaining why that vision has been tried and mostly rejected by the industry for good reasons.

Only one of them is learning from the conversation.

Yeah, sure :)

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