| ▲ | clcaev 11 hours ago |
| It'd be great if open firmware could be commercially viable. Finding a business model is hard. The OpenWRT One [1] sponsored by the Software Conservancy [2] and manufactured by Banana Pi [3] works lovely. [1] https://openwrt.org/toh/openwrt/one [2] https://sfconservancy.org/activities/openwrt-one.html [3] https://docs.banana-pi.org/en/OpenWRT-One/BananaPi_OpenWRT-O... |
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| ▲ | hedora 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| The business model is simple: Sell nice hardware at a premium, then sponsor and upstream improvements to OpenWRT. If the software is an important differentiator (arguably, it is for things like Ubiquiti, but clearly it is not for most consumer routers), then release the patches under the Business Source License with a 3-5 year sunset back to BSD / Apache / GPL. |
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| ▲ | pocksuppet 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Open to audits doesn't mean free software, it just means visible source. The business model for selling routers with auditable firmware is selling routers. |
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| ▲ | 0xbadcafebee 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | And the public doesn't have to audit it. The govt already audits/inspects/validates plenty of sensitive physical products, typically through 3rd party industry associations. You don't get to peek inside, but people signing NDAs do. Even if this wasn't done, at the very least they must publish their software testing procedures, the way UL, ETL, and CSA require to certify devices for the US power grid. (https://www.komaspec.com/about-us/blog/ul-etl-csa-certificat...) They can also do black box testing. But ideally they would actually inspect the software to ensure its design is correct. Otherwise vibe-coded apps with swiss cheese code will be running critical infrastructure and nobody will know until it's too late. |
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| ▲ | m01 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There's also Turris from cz.nic [1]. Technically they use a fork of OpenWRT with some convenience features like auto-updates, although it looks like you can run OpenWRT on (some of their routers?) if you wanted to [2]. [1] https://www.turris.com [2] https://openwrt.org/toh/turris/turris_omnia |
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| ▲ | bombcar 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Just declare that any router that can be flashed to OpenWRT without loss of functionality is allowed to be imported. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Requiring a one-click option to configure to open source would be a sensible across-the-board law. | | |
| ▲ | M95D 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think we all know that's never going to happen. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > we all know that's never going to happen Why? You'd need to get someone electorally useful involved. That, unfortunately, elimiates a lot of the nihilistic, holier-than-thou tech types. But that's pretty doable nowadays. You just need an electorally-relevant group of people on your side. | | |
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| ▲ | sophrosyne42 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Open firmware would become commercially viable when IP is abolished |
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| ▲ | AshamedCaptain 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | How do you see firmware becoming more open without copyright exactly? | | |
| ▲ | amlib 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not prosecuting people trying to reverse engineer any kind of software would be a great start... |
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| ▲ | mindslight 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm no fan of imaginary property, but you're going to have to lay out your reasoning here. Firmware security is such crap precisely because most hardware manufacturers see it as nothing but a cost center they wish they could avoid. The difficulty of installing OpenWRT or Linux in general on hardware comes from that hardware not being documented, or not having straightforward APIs like BIOS/EFI. Or for some devices, community distributions that dubiously remix manufacturer-supplied binaries are available. But we generally see that as soon as the manufacturer stops their updates, the community versions start lagging behind as well. | | |
| ▲ | M95D 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > not having straightforward APIs like BIOS/EFI. Oh, no, not this again! > But we generally see that as soon as the manufacturer stops their updates, the community versions start lagging behind as well. Care to demonstrate that? The reason OpenWrt abandoned most routers was 1) insufficient flash space in the kernel partition, or insufficient total flash space in no-USB, no-SPI routers, 2) unwillingness to repartition flash because it breaks compatibility with official firmware (as if anyone installing OpenWrt would care), 3) insufficient RAM to run newer kernels and, most importantly, 4) unwillingness to support older kernels like DD-WRT does. |
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| ▲ | 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
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