how about the OPPOSITE problem: _anyone knows of any non-EU AND non-US email providers_? with email accounts as the roots of trust for many things, i'd really wanna know how can I get a trustworthy one not-attached to eithern an unstable system (US), or a very overregulating one like the EU juristictions...

and ofc, non-CN too

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pavlov 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

So where do you want to host your email?

Name a country and it probably has its own problems: some combination of instability, corruption, authoritarian governments, collaboration with the US and EU governments that you want to escape…

ProtonMail is in Switzerland, so it’s perhaps the best mainstream bet. But the Swiss are absolutely not immune to US and EU pressure.

	▲	lynx97 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Isn't Proton planning to move to .de?

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groguzt 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Proton is in Switzerland, which is not part of EU

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keybits 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Runbox are a good option - company and servers in Norway: https://runbox.com/

Been around since 2000. They're also working on JMAP support and are the top financial contributor to the Stalwart mail server (https://opencollective.com/stalwart) so I think they'll have a more compelling offering soon.

Also worth keeping an eye on Thunderbird pro which will also use Stalwart: https://www.tb.pro/en-US/

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stingraycharles 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Singapore, Japan have reliable ISPs.

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lmz 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If the goal is to stay away from US or European influence then the Russians would be a better bet.

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stingraycharles 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes but that has the same downsides as China.

	▲	tbihl 39 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		And that's pretty much the thread. You're either subject to a large power's jurisdiction or subject to a jurisdiction whose sovereignty is at the pleasure of large powers... Pick a threat model, plan appropriately, and keep things in perspective.

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PeterStuer 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm using Zoho (Indian company, hosted in Europe). Maybe not perfect from a geopolitical pov, but it will do for now.

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PurpleRamen an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> how about the OPPOSITE problem: _anyone knows of any non-EU AND non-US email providers_?

Yes, your own server at home. All countries have fundamentally the same problems, so you will have everywhere the same tradeoffs as a customer. So it really depends on what your specific circumstances and requirements are. If laws are your problem, then stay away from countries where you break them; otherwise, just don't go where they will sell your data for any random penny.

> or a very overregulating one like the EU juristictions...

WTF is this kind of demand? Those regulations do not concern you as a user, but can be very beneficial for you, don't you understand this?

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petesergeant 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For email and calendaring, Fastmail, although Her Majesty’s Australian government has strong overreach instincts.

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lonelyasacloud 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> For email and calendaring, Fastmail, although Her Majesty’s Australian government has strong overreach instincts.

The Queen died of 8th September 2022.

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dragochat 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

...would those "overreach instinct" expand to "handing over access an overreaching and likely corrupt EU or US prosecutor"? (I don't care about 5eyes etc, spyies will spy me, I just don't want stuff to be easily and unexpectedly draggable in a court case, or am email used as bolt-key to access other things to get blocked by a prosecutor's regulation...)

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ffsm8 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If your threat model includes the USA government then you can only go with obscurity, honestly - preferably self hosted with a completely locked down system that cannot initiate any network communication besides on the relevant mail protocol ports, completely immutable filesystem beyond the mail data with encryption at rest

And with all of that they'll still be able to pwn you through network equipment which relays your mail, eg some router or switch which they backdoored and mirrors all traffic to their datacenter.

	▲	tbihl 38 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		>If your threat model includes the USA government then you can only go with obscurity, honestly Or move to Russia. Not recommending, just saying

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realusername 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Fastmail is australian

	▲	roelschroeven 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		But their servers are in the US.

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dangus 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

lol, you want trustworthy stability without “too many” regulations. Good luck with that.

I’m not sure you know what instability means if you think the US is unstable. If anything, the fact that the dumbest person on the planet is in charge of the United States and the country still functions as well as it does proves a lot about the stability of the USA. The country runs on geopolitical easy mode.

Maybe there’s a libertarian fantasy novel where you can host your services.