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flohofwoe 16 hours ago

Tbh, 1300 lines of extremely cursed code to open a frigging window and GL context deserves that bile. Such a fundamental problem is also nothing that can be fixed through contributions except discarding the whole clusterfuck and starting over from scratch.

izacus 15 hours ago | parent [-]

No, nothing deserves this constant whining and crying day in and day out.

Especially coming from people who don't put in the work to build something else.

It's really bizarre how the opensource community degraded into this space of constant aggresive, insulting screeching over every single project thats actually moving something in the Linux world. Coming from people who don't put any code behind it or do anything but attack any change since 1990s.

To hell with that, Linux developers deserve better than this constant barrage of hate.

MintPaw 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> No, nothing deserves this constant whining and crying day in and day out.

Why even try an start a conversation with that attitude? Wayland doesn't get nearly as much hate as Windows, Chrome, or iOS. But I guess literally nothing is worth writing an article that has the word "fuck" in it 7 times, because that crosses some kind of ultimate line?

adrian_b 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are plenty of projects that move something in the Linux world.

The problem with systemd and Wayland is that they are not like any other projects which the users may choose depending on how useful they are for their needs.

Wayland and systemd are forced by a few distribution maintainers upon a great number of Linux users, regardless of what those users may want.

Many users may not be directly impacted by these changes, so they may trust that the maintainers know what they are doing.

But there are also many users for which these replacements would require a lot of work so such users would expect a better justification of why systemd or Wayland are an improvement over alternatives. I have seen tons of presentations about systemd or Wayland, but none of them were convincing. There were never any correct comparisons with alternatives to show that systemd or Wayland are better at something.

I agree than it would be very desirable for X11 to be replaced by something better.

But I have never seen any piece of information that would indicate that Wayland is better. On the contrary, almost every detail that I learn about Wayland shows a bad design decision.

For example, before reading the parent article, I was not aware that the Wayland client API is so reliant on callback functions. In my opinion, this is bad because such an API is inefficient, as it leads to a lot of code duplication.

In my opinion, the cases when it is a good choice to use callback functions are very rare. Instead of callback functions, it should have been better to use some kind of event queue, because there is little else that callback functions can do, except inserting the event into a queue, for handling by the main thread.

The only "advantage" of callback functions is that the implementer of the API might have chosen a bad implementation of an event queue, while an API based on callback functions is not yet committed to a particular queue implementation, allowing the user of the API to do the right thing, but possibly with a waste of code in the initial part of all callback functions.

Avoiding the choice of an implementation for the event queue could still be done efficiently if there were a single callback that you could use for all Wayland functions, which would be your own implementation of the queue insertion function. This would be a good API, as there would be no code duplication, while also not forcing an implementation choice. Multiple callback functions make sense on the server side of a protocol, not on the client side of a protocol, because the messages passing through the protocol might be seen as remote procedure calls originating from the client.

flohofwoe 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Tbh, it's quite delusional to think that a better alternative solution would win that's not backed by Redhat and GNOME. In a purely competitive environment, a design like Wayland could never have "won" as an X11 replacement, it was pushed long enough until it was "too big to fail".

izacus 14 hours ago | parent [-]

If the alternative really was better, why wouldn't they back it?

They backed systemd. I think you need to stop with conspiracy thinking and admit to yourself that maybe the solution was actually better than before. And as such, if you build something even better, they'll switch too.

But it has to BE better, not just a pile of yelling.