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| ▲ | GeoAtreides 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I meant the way it deal with the southport rioters (no judgement value on the riot itself or its reasons, just noticing how the uk gov dealt with the it) For example: >Courts will sit for 24 hours to fast-track sentencing under government plans to crack down on far-Right riots that swept Britain on Saturday.[1] [1]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/03/courts-open-24-h... There is also this: >Only Australia arrested climate and environmental protesters at a higher rate than UK police. One in five Australian eco-protests led to arrests, compared with about 17% in the UK. The global average rate is 6.7%. >The UK’s Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2021 and the Public Order Act 2022 transformed the relationship between protesters and the state, handing police extensive new powers to curtail protests and criminalising a range of protest activities. [2] [2] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/dec/11/britain-... Boot, face, forever, etc | | |
| ▲ | Nursie 43 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Honestly, so long as there is adequate time for everyone to prepare and adequate oversight, fast tracking like seems to me far preferable to waiting for 2-3 years! And given the Southport riots were, well riots, it’s unsurprising they were dealt with harshly. That said, I agree that what’s happening with protest in both the UK and Australia is deeply wrong. New South Wales in particular seems to be awful on this front. It’s a shame that guardian article doesn’t link to the actual study. It’s not especially surprising that there is a high rate of arrests in the subcategory of protests they picked - environmental (not climate) protests often involve things like blockading mine sites and blocking roads here in Aus. In some of the countries mentioned in the article you may just be physically moved, beaten or even shot for that behaviour. Which is not to say that the higher arrests aren’t concerning, but the picture isn’t exactly clear after reading the article, particularly as it mentions over 2000 environmental protestors were killed during that period, I’d hope none in the UK or Aus, which to me that even though the arrests aren’t rates are higher in these countries, to imply that they are the worst in their treatment of protest is probably wrong. | | |
| ▲ | GeoAtreides 28 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >And given the Southport riots were, well riots, it’s unsurprising they were dealt with harshly. you didn't read or care to understand my argument at all, which is not about the target of the process, but the existence of the process and the process itself. Looks like I have to spell it out: next time won't be race rioters, next time will be protesters protesting the farage gov crackdown on immigrants and minorities. >It’s not especially surprising that there is a high rate of arrests in the subcategory of protests they picked the article mentions the rate of arrests is high COMPARED with other countries. And again you're getting lost in the details; this wasn't about what the protests were about, but the brutal swift crackdown AND the laws passed giving police more powers. Yes, this time they hit your out-group, so all is well. fine. next time, (and this is the crux of my argument), _using the exact same tools_, it's your group, you, that will be targeted. | | |
| ▲ | Nursie 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > the existence of the process Yes, I know you think it’s bad that it exists. I don’t. So long as it is carried out with proper oversight and people have time to prepare, it actually appears preferable to endless delay which is the current hallmark of the British justice system. Do you disagree? Why? Do you have a reason to think that justice served this way is less fair or rigorous? Because frankly I’d rather get in the express lane at that point if I was on the receiving end, than have to live with the process over my head for 2-3 years. > the article mentions the rate of arrests is high COMPARED with other countries. Yes, and it also says some of those other countries are killing environmental protestors, so the picture is not as clear cut as you might like. Seriously, maybe read it again if you think this is entirely un-nuanced. I agree with you that giving the police extra powers is bad. I agree the direction of travel is bad. I disagree that faster justice is bad. I disagree that a higher arrest rate than other countries on a subset of protests is as black and white as you think. |
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| ▲ | gib444 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Presumably the 2011 riots: a college student with no criminal record was jailed for six months for stealing a £3.50 case of bottled water [0] Or perhaps our current Home Sec in 2014 declaring "Rioters face years in prison as Home Secretary Yvette Cooper promises ‘swift justice’" [1] [0] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8695988/London... [1] https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/riots-prison-justice-l... It's all part of making effective protesting illegal. You can justify each little step as you clutch your pearls (even me, to an extent if I don't think of the bigger picture), but then when you realise that the sum of all that is permitted is standing alone creating no disturbance for anyone, effecting no change, and you realise effective protesting is banned. | | |
| ▲ | Nursie 38 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Those riots in 2011 were not protest in any meaningful way. I was in London at the time, it was a bunch of people stealing shit and setting fires because they thought they could. What was shocking was how hands-off the police were when they routinely kettle and arrest peaceful protestors. When confronted with people who were actually looting and burning stuff down, they were nowhere to be seen. And the second article is about people setting fire to cars and buildings. This is not “effective protest”, it’s criminal damage and arson and would be prosecuted as such in any western nation. Are you seriously arguing you should be able to get away with setting fire to a community library because you reckon you’ve got a legit grievance? Yeah nah, no thanks. |
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