| ▲ | How Ford burned $12B in Brazil (2021)(reuters.com) |
| 55 points by kaycebasques 19 hours ago | 28 comments |
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| ▲ | locao 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This article is wrong at its core. > The study was commissioned by Brazilian auto industry group Anfavea Nothing that comes from Anfavea is trustable. It's a crooked association of a few automakers that will try to push the government to give every subside to them and tax the other ones to the brim. The article tries to justify Ford Mexican cars low sales numbers in Brazil using every flawed argument Anfavea uses. For instance: > On Thursday, Ford launched its new Bronco Sport SUV in Brazil. Made in Mexico, it is exported to the U.S. where it starts at $26,820. In Brazil, where per capita income is much lower, Ford said the Mexican-made car will retail for $48,000. The key point here is "starts". Ford only imports top of the line cars in Brazil. I just searched Bronco Sport prices in Mexico in 2021, they started at $30900 up to $40000+. That $40000+ version was (still is) the only one sold in Brazil. 20% over the retail price in Mexico is not great, but far away from what the article tries to imply. |
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| ▲ | projektfu 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Stellantis is doing well in Brazil, especially with the popular Fiat Strada. The Jeeps (Compass and Commander) are also seen as aspirational cars there for many people. I imagine the Bronco was selling way above the Commander price point with less features. But the real story now is that Chinese makers (BYD, Chery) are expanding rapidly. BYD is selling people on both electric and gasoline cars. Chery has a partnership with CAOA to produce cars in Brazil. Stellantis also builds cars in Brazil. It seems that the best way to sell to the market is to build there, and keep the costs down while hitting the right price point. |
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| ▲ | cladopa 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It must be said: Mr Ford created way more wealth in the world than what it destroyed. For example, the Japanese discovered that importing Ford cars from Japan was cheaper that manufacturing those in Japan, including all the shipping cost. The same happened in Russia, Germany and most places of the West world. The new manufacturing method was a revolution that have generated trillions. |
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| ▲ | sidewndr46 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > the Japanese discovered that importing Ford cars from Japan was cheaper that manufacturing those in Japan maybe I just don't understand, but something seems off with this statement? | | | |
| ▲ | lysace 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And now an authoritarian one-party country (I think it's decidedly sliding into a dictatorship) is winning car manufacturing - and possibly almost all of manufacturing except high-end semiconductors and optics. The future is going to be interesting. :/ | | |
| ▲ | tehjoker 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't buy this but even if it were true, you could say the same if America was winning. |
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| ▲ | ProAm 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Still a wild antisemitic so.... money isn't everything. | | |
| ▲ | jazzyjackson 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Gets undue credit for assembly lines, guns and pocket watches were moving that way too, I wonder what middle school history book publisher cemented his legacy | |
| ▲ | elorant 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don’t understand why you’re downvoted. Hitler considered him an inspiration and praised him in Mein Kampf. Ford funded and published “The Dearborn Independent” which was a newspaper full of libel against Jews. Sure he was a visionary industrialist, but also a vile human being. | | |
| ▲ | ulfw 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | So is Elon Musk and yet he is the richest man on Earth, has meddled in government freely and fanboys still believe every fart that is coming out of him. He used to be into making cars too but that clearly fell off the wayside | | |
| ▲ | kakacik an hour ago | parent [-] | | ... and has very little respect here. Some fanboys aren't a guide to amount of respect one deserves, regardless of topic. I must say he redeemed himself tiny little bit in my eyes when he blocked russian use of starlink in their war in Ukraine, I didn't register any apparent reason apart from stopping murdering of civilians by russians, but thats been happening during whole war in non-trivial numbers. But he also famously sabotaged their naval drones mid attack by disabling all of them during early phase of the war, to not sink half of black sea naval fleet at one go, so... a complicated, highly unreliable person. I think everybody can easily find deep flaws in him, be them personal or professional (ie he is POS father based on many accounts for example, thats not flying with most parents that know this). Then it matters if folks have firm hard-to-bend moral values or are more flexible with them. Based on experience most people are quite a bit flexible, otherwise they would have to hate themselves too a lot. | | |
| ▲ | lostlogin an hour ago | parent [-] | | It’s deeply average that Musk is improving his behaviour when he stops helping Russia. |
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| ▲ | SPascareli13 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Interesting aside, BYD (Chinese EV automaker) has took over production in the old Ford factory in Camaçari. |
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| ▲ | roysting 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I was just reading an article on how BYD's flash charger can apparently charge a battery from 10-70% in 5 min and full in 9 min. That's basically refueling speeds. | | |
| ▲ | hvb2 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | The only use for that is for people that cannot charge at home I would think. After having driven for 4 to 5 hours a 15 minute break is not an issue? If you can charge while you sleep, you would typically have enough capacity to make it through a normal day? Yes, there are probably exceptions but if you're not a commercial driver and drive >250 miles a day, that sucks.... | | |
| ▲ | rjsw 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It would be helpful for the current generation of smaller electic vehicles that are fine for daily use but would need to stop every 100 miles on a longer trip in winter. | |
| ▲ | glenngillen 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Just got home from visiting family a couple of hours away in the highlands here. Battery is now at 40%, it'll take almost 2 days of charging at home to get it back to 100%. Hopefully I don't have another significant open highway drive to make in the next day or so. Also our electricity rates fluctuate based on the underlying wholesale rate. It's going to be clear and sunny tomorrow at midday. Sure would be nice to be able to set my car to charge at midday when the price is single digits cents per kw, or maybe even negative. Instead I'll just have to drip it in with the higher rates at midnight-6am and know tomorrows cheap rates will average out to a much lower cost. TLDR: definitely useful even for people who charge at home. | |
| ▲ | kakacik an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Man, people have wildly different lifestyles than what you presume, also some of us live in colder climates where official battery numbers become a joke. Those numbers would be unacceptable for me and my family for example, annoying and disrupting every single weekend. Suffice to say we own 2 ICE cars and no electric car is coming anytime soon, the overall costs and inconvenience are simply too high. |
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| ▲ | kaycebasques 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes that is their biggest manufacturing hub right? And was the location of the working conditions controversy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Brazil_working_conditions_... |
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| ▲ | manarth 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| https://archive.is/mzQjQ |
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| ▲ | ashwinnair99 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Same story every time. Underestimate how different the market is, stay too long hoping it turns around, leave with nothing. Just had more zeroes than usual. |
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| ▲ | luqtas 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| they also managed to buy and destroy a really proeminent 4x4 national company [0] it's tech was of course, eaten by them [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troller_Ve%C3%ADculos_Especiai... |
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| ▲ | dmoo 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Just as an aside - The album Fordlandia https://open.spotify.com/album/2I4uGgkMgN3UGE8ZQjCMjB?si=qdG... |
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| ▲ | dartharva 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Ford burnt a lot in India too iirc, it had to exit the market rather unceremoniously |
