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palata 7 hours ago

Anecdotally, my experience with Wayland has been a lot better than with X11. I have been on Wayland for years, I can't remember the last time I had an issue (running Sway).

enceladus06 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Exactly. Ubuntu LTS 24 and Intel integrated GPU + Wayland is zero problems even when running 4k120 and 150% scaled resolution. Chrome / vscode / zed / Rstudio / Youtube 4k60, it just works.

Edit this is running a 32" 2160p120 (4k) monitor alongside a 24" 1080p144 monitor.

c0balt 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Same here, there are some pain points with swaywm (notably screen sharing is only per display, DisplayLink support and screen mirroring is a pain). Most of these points however are IME a worthwhile tradeoff. Sway has also been astoundingly stable (compared to gnome or KDE)

pacifika 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

> I can't remember the last time I had an issue

Depending on your workflows the comment just described three issues

bhewes 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Same here. Wayland has been fine. (Hyprland)

Ferret7446 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I suspect part of that is the Xorg maintainers (who are also behind Wayland efforts) are actively trying to kill it and make it as unbearable as possible

ploxiln 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm still using Xorg after all these years, on a laptop with 150% scaling, which I occasionally plug into an external monitor with 100% scaling. Somewhat surprisingly, it works great. (Cinnamon desktop, Ryzen 7840u integrated graphics. And also a desktop machine with Radeon RX 6800XT, but it's not surprising that still works great.)

kibwen 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's all open-source. If you think the maintainers are trying to sabotage the codebase, you have the freedom to fork it.

throwawa14223 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don’t get all of what’s going on but from the outside it seems like the xLibre guys got a lot of negative attention for doing that.

happymellon 3 hours ago | parent [-]

If you don't know what's going on, why comment?

A guy decided that after getting all his patches rejected because they cause tests to fail, doesn't compile, etc. that the problem is everyone else and decided to fork XOrg.

He then announced that the problem wasn't his code that didn't compile but DEI so based the entire forking around being a political conservative.

Everything I've seen written by him shows him to be insufferable, thats where the negative attention comes from.

Ferret7446 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There are a lot of distros that have xlibre packages for something that ostensibly doesn't compile.

I wouldn't trust the reason given by the people who have said that they're trying to kill Xorg for why they're rejecting patches from someone trying to improve Xorg

happymellon 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> There are a lot of distros that have xlibre packages for something that ostensibly doesn't compile.

No one says xlibre doesn't compile, but good attempt at a distraction. Have you considered invading a country as an alternative way to distract from terrible views?

yjftsjthsd-h 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> No one says xlibre doesn't compile

>> A guy decided that after getting all his patches rejected because they cause tests to fail, doesn't compile, etc. that the problem is everyone else and decided to fork XOrg.

Emphasis mine, words yours.

happymellon 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yeah, some submitted patches failed to compile. Others compiled and failed tests.

Not the same as XLibre doesn't compile.

yehat 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Wow here it shows who's politically motivated and like it or not Xlibre probably felt the same way. Some people cannot sleep or chill if it is not theirs world view.

DonHopkins 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

"... generic human experiment ... creates a new humanoid race ... toxic spike protein ..." - Enrico Weigelt on LKML

"... insane and technically incorrect ... idiotic lies ... you don't know what you are talking about ... SHUT THE HELL UP ..." - Linus Torvalds

https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957

It's not just his code.

The COVID conspiracy theories Enrico Weigelt pushes are riddled with bugs, logical errors, and security holes, and don't compile or pass tests either.

Linus already reviewed both the code and the reasoning, and rejected them for failing basic correctness.

DonHopkins 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What a flippant cliché. Why don't you put as much time and effort and thought into your comments and money into supporting open source developers as you demand other people to put into forking code bases and rearchitecting enormous monolithic socially and economically entrenched pieces of software without getting paid for their time?

If you're going to criticize, then at least make some constructive comments about how you think they SHOULD do it instead of just telling them to fork off.

https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-x-windows-disaster-128d398...

https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/uwm.extensions.txt

  Date: Mon, 23 Feb 87 18:31:00 EST
  From: Don Hopkins <brillig.umd.edu!don@harvard>
  To: cartan!weyl.Berkeley.EDU!rusty@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
  Cc: xpert@athena.mit.edu
  Subject:  Uwm extensions, perhaps?
[...] I see just the same problem with XToolKit. I would like to see the ToolKit as a client that you would normally run on the same machine as the server, for speed. Interactive widgets would be much more interactive, you wouldn't have to have a copy of the whole library in every client, and there would be just one client to configure. The big question is how do your clients communicate with it? Are the facilities in X11 sufficient? Or would it be a good idea to adopt some other standard for communication between clients? At the X conference, it was said that the X11 server should be used by clients to rendezvous with each other, but not as a primary means of communication. Why is that?

Setting a standard on any kind of key or mouse bindings would be evil. The window manager should be as transparent as possible. It solves lots of problems for it to be able to send any event to the clients. For example, how about function to quote an event that the window manager would normally intercept, and send it on?

Perhaps the window manager is the place to put the ToolKit?

-Don

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.windows.x/c/qJO5IgI_7HU/m/J...

On September 19, 1989, Don Hopkins wrote on xpert@athena:

[...] I think it's a pretty good idea to have the window manager, or some other process running close to the server, handle all the menus. Window managment and menu managment are separate functions, but it would be a real performance win for the window and the menu manager to reside in the same process. There should be options to deactivate either type of managment, so you could run, say, a motif window manager, and an open look menu manager at the same time. But I think that in most cases you'd want the uniform user interface, and the better performance, that you'd get by having both in one process. I think it would be possible to implement something like this with the NDE window manager in X11/NeWS. It's written in object oriented PostScript, based on the tNt toolkit, and runs as a light weight processes inside the NeWS server. This way, selecting from a menu that invokes a window managment function only involves one process (the xnews server), instead of three (the x server and the two "outboard" managers), with all the associated overhead of paging, ipc, and context switching. [...]

packetlost 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I second this. I had issues years ago, but those have mostly been fixed.

bigyabai 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Additionally, the Steam Deck ships with Wayland by default. Hundreds of thousands of gamers are stress-testing it without any complaint that I'm aware of.

flohofwoe a minute ago | parent | next [-]

Running fullscreen games on a single fixed hardware configuration isn't exactly 'stress-testing', it just tells you that a single code path works.

tliltocatl 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Games isn't exactly the best stress test for a windowing system. Most (if not all) run in full-screen mode and don't really use it much after the launch. And that's not what desktop computing is about. You want to run multiple programs, you want them to integrate with each other. But games don't need any of this.

cwnyth 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Just guessing, are we?

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1445kc7/citie...

kingaillas 6 hours ago | parent [-]

That post is 3 years old, so basically around 1 year into the Steam Deck's release.

cwnyth 5 hours ago | parent [-]

And yet, Cities Skylines still (last tried: about 2 months ago) crashes for me when I try to load it in Wayland on Fedora, which has removed Xorg from its updates.

Wayland has broken dozens of my Steam games.

4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
Ferret7446 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It ships with Wayland, but it does almost everything with X(wayland)

bigyabai 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Wine 9.22+ has the native Wayland backend by default. Now Xwayland is barely needed.

jauntywundrkind 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

As someone who uses my steam deck as a workstation too, I really really wish this were fully true. The desktop is still X based, and that suuuccckkksss.

raron 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The next SteamOS release will use Wayland by default for desktop mode, too:

https://steamcommunity.com/games/1675200/announcements/detai...

ThatMedicIsASpy 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've had bazzite on mine for a year and wayland by default

bigyabai 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The desktop sure, but the primary handheld mode uses Gamescope which is a Wayland-based session.