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stebalien 12 hours ago

I live in LA and Waymos are the only cars I don't have to play chicken with when crossing the street. Even the drivers that see you will just give you a "sorry, I'm in a rush" wave as they nearly run you over.

EdwardDiego 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I did find the Waymos in SF disconcerting as they approached pedestrian crossings while I was waiting - with a human driver there's many different cues that they've seen you and noticed you - whether it be looking directly at you, or slowing down in preparation for you to cross.

I'm sure if I had just started walking across the crossing it would have reacted perfectly, but I wasn't willing - based on the lack of observable "I have noticed you" cues - to test that theory.

DuckConference 6 hours ago | parent [-]

The lights up on top will show a walk sign when it's waiting for a pedestrian to cross before proceeding.

Mawr an hour ago | parent [-]

That combined with the parent's post is, perhaps counterintuitively, somewhat concerning.

The proper technique for yielding to pedestrians wishing to cross is to start slowing down early, as if you were planning to stop before the crossing. That sends a clear signal to the pedestrian they're good to start crossing. Then you're free to speed back up. This is very comfortable for the pedestrian and the vehicle never needs to stop, so the slowdown is minimal.

That Waymos apparently don't act this way and seem to need to send an explicit signal to pedestrians sounds concerning to me, even if its ultimately safe.

Ferret7446 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Are these at pedestrian crossings or jaywalking?

leovander 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Make sure to never be in a hurry to get anywhere because you might then get stuck behind a fleet of them going exactly the speed limit, grid locking you in.

flipbrad 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Isn't the correct answer to this, lobbying for higher speed limits? Rather than chastizing obedience to current rules.

epolanski 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In Italy several cities lowered the maximum speed from 50 to 30 km/h.

There was a huge fight over it, car drivers in those cities were mad. Plenty of politicians opposed it.

One year later stats were super clear: streets got way safer and the number of fatal accidents dropped to near 0. Time to traverse cities didn't change much, as it was already limited mostly by traffic and lights.

HDThoreaun 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think this ignores the argument the high speed limit people make which basically boils down to "sure some people will die or get injured but its worth it because driving faster is fun"

kulahan 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I’m absolutely sure people are just interested in shorter commute times rather than higher max speeds. That makes this an easy sell to citizens

sagarm 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I believe you, but do you have a citation?

TimTheTinker 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, agreed. Though speed limits higher than 75 are not something I will ever support.*

* Unless we're talking about removing a speed limit altogether and regulating unsafe driving using other criteria.

benlivengood 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Autonomous vehicles following proper signalling before lane changes can be safe at arbitrary speeds (see Autobahns working at all). Humans, we should limit passing speed to roughly ~5 mph delta between adjacent lanes and leave it at that.

Humans with adequate following distance in the entire lane can probably manage 10 mph delta. I routinely travel dozens of miles very safely at ~80 with the flow of traffic (including the cops), and been stressed out at 55 in the carpool lane through stop and go traffic in the right-hand lanes due to on ramps/offramps.

jjav 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What happens at 76mph?

TimTheTinker 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Same thing that happens at 77mph :)

I think 75 is memorable and roughly in the region where the tradeoff between increased kinetic energy and decreased time to arrival per additional unit of velocity becomes untenable.

The_President 9 hours ago | parent [-]

> the tradeoff between increased kinetic energy and decreased time to arrival per additional unit of velocity becomes untenable

Sounds like a warning page out of the back of a 94 Geo Metro owner's manual.

Toutouxc 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is this something that I’m too European to understand? How do you get “stuck” behind someone doing the speed limit?

LeifCarrotson 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Because American drivers have normalized always driving 10 mph (16 km/h) over the speed limit.

Cops won't pull you over or write tickets if you're not at least 15 mph over, we basically don't have speed cameras, everyone's trying to win the rat race and dehumanizing other cars around them, and it's not considered morally wrong (by most) to break that specific part of the law.

So a single vehicle obeying the law will quickly get a long line of tailgaters and tailgaters of tailgaters trying to "push" the vehicle to go faster.

They can suck it, I'm not late or in a hurry, and my ancient truck, steel bumper, and class 5 receiver hitch will not be badly harmed by your plastic grille. I get better gas mileage and have a longer stopping distance when I drive the limit, and I don't care if others are honking or riding my ass because they think I should drive faster.

rootusrootus 9 hours ago | parent [-]

> my ancient truck, steel bumper, and class 5 receiver hitch will not be badly harmed by your plastic grille

I've been rear-ended in my truck, and the receiver punched a nice hole right through the radiator of the guy who hit me. Definitely fucked his car up way more than it did my truck ... except man, that is definitely one of the hardest impacts I've ever felt in my body. I now appreciate how hard the head rests really are, despite looking a little soft. I think I'd rather have crumpled crumple zones and a new truck next time.

1shooner 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On most US highways (i.e. multi-lane limited access roads), it's customary to leave a path in the left 'passing lane' for any traffic that wants/needs to go faster than you. If cars match speeds across lanes, it impedes faster traffic.

The speed limit itself is a separate convention and regulation. In some places you can be cited for obstructing traffic by going the speed limit in the passing lane if you are matching the speed of cars to your right, effectively blocking the road.

FL410 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>it's customary to leave a path in the left 'passing lane' for any traffic that wants/needs to go faster than you

It's not just customary in many (most?) states, it's the law. People who sit in the left lane are the problem.

Dylan16807 18 minutes ago | parent [-]

Can you cite a specific state law that says that?

The last couple laws like that I checked only talked about limiting flow below the speed limit.

eszed 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> it's customary to leave a path in the left 'passing lane' for any traffic that wants/needs to go faster than you.

A custom that (where I live) is becoming more honored in the breach than the observance. It makes driving very much more dangerous.

In Britain they have a sardonic nickname for people who do this: CLARAs. "Centre Lane Residency Association".

rootusrootus 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Sometimes I an appreciate wanting to cruise in the middle lane, because ADAS level 2 systems common on cars today is far more comfortable when it does not have to deal with regular merging traffic. But aside from that, I really don't like it when people camp in the middle lane because they tend to form a pretty tight line and manage to effectively turn a three-lane highway into two single-lane highways -- hard to get through from one side to the other.

circuit10 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I’m from England but I’ve only every heard “middle lane hoggers” for this

rootusrootus 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> If cars match speeds across lanes, it impedes faster traffic.

I think this undersells it a little. It does not just impede faster traffic, when the lanes are pacing each other it makes navigating harder -- simply switching lanes is more difficult. The highway moves so much more efficiently with a small but steady difference in speed between each lane.

Dylan16807 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

That doesn't make sense to me. If you want to change lanes, and worst case scenario you're right next to someone, go 2mph slower for 20 seconds and they'll be shifted by 60 feet. I'm sure you can plan your lane changes on a freeway 20 seconds in advance.

saalweachter 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Results: A 5-mph increase in the maximum state speed limit was associated with an 8.5% increase in fatality rates on interstates/freeways and a 2.8% increase on other roads. In total during the 25-year study period, there were an estimated 36,760 more traffic fatalities than would have been expected if maximum speed limits had not increased—13,638 on interstates/freeways and 23,122 on other roads.

https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/bibliography/ref/2188

JumpCrisscross 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> How do you get “stuck” behind someone doing the speed limit?

"Only 46.5 percent of U.S. drivers consider going more than 15 miles per hour over the speed limit on the freeway to be "extremely" or "very" dangerous — with 40.6 percent openly admitting to doing it at least "a few times" in the last 30 days" [1].

[1] https://usa.streetsblog.org/2023/11/30/why-so-many-u-s-drive...

rootusrootus 9 hours ago | parent [-]

We have a lot of freeway speed limits that are holdovers from the last oil crisis decades ago. Cars have gotten quieter, smoother, more capable, to the point where 55 mph is kind of hilariously slow. When the legal speed limit does not reflect what most drivers think is reasonable, then we can stamp our feet and insist that the law must be right, or we could redesign the road or adjust the speed limit to more closely reflect conventional wisdom.

Toutouxc 44 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Where do you guys have 55 mph where it's not appropriate? A LLM is telling me that 55 mph is your random urban interstate. The equivalent where I live is 80 km/h on motorways inside city/town limits, which is 50 mph, and it feels very appropriate, cars make a ton of noise and you don't want the full motorway speed in the city. And that's basically the fastest you'll ever go in a city, when it's an actual motorway (often elevated, ramps, sound barriers). Other roads (even big and important) are ~43 mph and the general urban speed limit is ~31 mph.

JumpCrisscross 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> we can stamp our feet and insist that the law must be right, or we could redesign the road or adjust the speed limit to more closely reflect conventional wisdom

Most Americans ignore speed limits. This stems from it being socially and legally problematic to permanently revoke our driver’s licenses. We should raise a lot of limits. But many others are fine and still sped through.

nutjob2 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On the stretch of motorway that I frequent in Italy, the speed limit is mostly 130 km/h, but the majority of people drive at about 100 to 110 km/h (including me).

But there are also people who drive in the left lane, who will tailgate you at 1 or 2 meters because you're doing 130 km/h. These people are idiots, but you get these sorts of people everywhere.

On American freeways, you don't have a choice, every lane is doing about 10 mph over the limit (or in LA way under) and it is disruptive or dangerous not to. These freeways tend to be running at full capacity so it actually makes sense since it improves capacity.

yccs27 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Road capacity does not increase with speed above 50 km/h on urban roads or 70 km/h on highways. Following distance scales with speed, so more speed can actually mean fewer cars per unit of time.

In theory, braking distance scales quadratically with speed. In practice, people leave less room on highways, because they rely on others driving predictably, but spacing still increases faster than linear.

HDThoreaun 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

speed limits in the US are barely suggestions, let alone rules

rossjudson 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You drive an ambulance? Or a fire truck?

UltraSane 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Being forced to drive the speed limit isn't that big of a deal