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| ▲ | free_bip 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Brother, there's an entire genre of scamming where the scammers spend months building rapport with their victims, usually without ever asking for anything, before "cashing out". One day is nothing. |
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| ▲ | curt15 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Wouldn't a wait time like 2 hours with some jitter make it more difficult for a scammer to pursue the case? People aren't going to be willing to stay on the phone for hours at a time. With 24 hour wait, the scammer could just schedule another call for the next day. | | |
| ▲ | johnnyanmac 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | >People aren't going to be willing to stay on the phone for hours at a time. "Okay, come back to me in a few hours and we'll continue" Remember, these are already people who took the time to respond. They are invested. |
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| ▲ | hbn 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Scammers already will spend multiple days on a scam call. Watch some Kitboga videos, he'll strings them along for a week. "Google will call you again tomorrow to get you your refund." There, we've successfully circumvented all of Google's security engineering on this "feature." |
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| ▲ | fhdkweig 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Check out this A&E Intervention episode for Greg. They have continuously worked this guy over for months. https://youtu.be/YIR-nJv_-VA?t=121 They don't mind being patient when they have dozens of other victims in the wait queue. | |
| ▲ | yunnpp 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is obvious to anyone with a brain. I'm not familiar with scam logistics or the videos you mentioned, and the exact same line you put in quotes is what first came to my mind. tl;dr of this post is that Google wants to lock down Android and be its gatekeeper. Every other point of discussion is just a distraction. |
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| ▲ | kevincox 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think the more important aspect is that people will have 24h to slow down, think, and realize that they are being scammed. Urgency and pressure is one of the top tactics used by scammers. Scammers will definitely call back the next day to continue. But it is quite possible that by then the victim has realized, or talked to someone who helped them realize that they are being scammed. |
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| ▲ | dminik 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | There's been some reporting recently where I live about a case of some woman being scammed. She went to a bank to transfer the scammer money. They told her no. She came back the next day. The police got involved and explained everything to her. Then she came back the next day. After that, she apparently found another location which let her transfer the money. There's basically zero chance a 24 hour (or any amount of a) cool off period will help these people. | | |
| ▲ | kevincox 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Just because you have one example of someone who would not realize doesn't mean that the number of people who would realize is zero. | | |
| ▲ | dminik 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's not one example. The scammers purposefully target people like these. That's their business. Like, I'm sure there's a small amount of people who normally wouldn't get scammed but fall for it in a panic. But, is that really such a big concern for Google that they absolutely must continue stripping user freedoms from us? Is the current 30s popup which needs 3 confirmations not enough? Will the new one really work? | | |
| ▲ | kevincox 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes the most likely to fall are going to be targeted, but if you make that group of people 90% smaller with a delay that is still beneficial. Whether the feature is beneficial overall is a different story. But helping some people is great even if it doesn't help everyone. | | |
| ▲ | dminik 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > helping some people is great even if it doesn't help everyone It's kind of funny, but I very much agree with this. It's just in this case, it's hurting everyone (in ways most don't even realize) so that you can help a few people. It's like putting everyone in prison, because some people might commit a crime and this would save some victims. A bit of an overreaction, no? | |
| ▲ | johnnyanmac 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm not convinced it's 90% smaller. >Whether the feature is beneficial overall is a different story. It's the entore story in my eyes. Hell paved with good intentions (and I don't even think Google's intentions are good). |
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| ▲ | MishaalRahman 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Right, this friction makes it much harder for a scammer to get away with saying something like, "wire me $10,000 right now or you won't see your child ever again!" as the potential victim is forced to wait 24 hours before they can install the scammer's malicious app, thus giving them time to think about it and/or call their trusted contacts. |
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| ▲ | joecool1029 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The sheer arrogance that you think someone manipulated successfully will just re-think the situation and ask their friends/family. The naivety to assume all scammers are impulsive fools and don't do this for a living, as their primary line of work. So Google's going to add some nonsense abstraction layer and when this fails to curb the problem after a 24 hour wait, it will be extended more maybe a week, and more information must be collected to release it. We all know how this goes. | | |
| ▲ | izacus 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | The sheet arrogance of you thinking that you know more about these problems than people actually combating them at scale. |
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| ▲ | prmoustache 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Potencial victim's AI agents will wait patiently those 24 hours. In fact it may just wait exactly 24 hours and not one more second. |
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| ▲ | cogman10 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sure, but what about a 30 minute delay? 1 hour? 2 hour? 24 is just so long. But also, my expectation is that a scammer is going to just automate the flow here anyways. Cool, you hit the "24 hour" wait period, I'll call you back tomorrow, the next day, or the next day and continue the scam process. It might stop some less sophisticated spammers for a little bit, but I expect that it'll just be a few tweaks to make it work again. |
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| ▲ | fwip 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | 24 hours is long enough to get them off the phone, and potentially talking to other people who might recognize the scam. There will be some proportion of people who mention to their spouse/child/friend about how Google called them to fix their phone, and are saved by that waiting period. | | |
| ▲ | tauntz 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Sure, but wouldn't 35 hours do the same trick? Or 5 hours? Or 10 hours and 28 minutes? :) The question is, why exactly 24 hours? The argument is that the time limit is set to protect the users and sacrifice usability to do so. So it would be prudent to set the time limit to the shortest amount that will protect the user -> and that shortest amount is apparently 24 hours, which is rather.. suspiciously long and round :) | | |
| ▲ | Groxx 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You've got to pick some time value (if you choose this route at all), and if the goal is to prevent urgency-coercion it needs to be at least multiple hours. An extremely-common-for-humans one seems rather obvious compared to, like, 18.2 hours (65,536 seconds). Unless you want to pick 1 week. But that's a lot more annoying. | |
| ▲ | jcul 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well, I guess 24 hours gives a good change to include at least one window where a vulnerable person might be able to speak with a trusted contact. Someone who lives in another timezone or works weird hours etc. Our routines generally repeat on 24hour schedules, so likely to be one point of overlap. |
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| ▲ | MishaalRahman 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Exactly - the idea is to make it harder for scammers to create a false sense of urgency. |
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| ▲ | nvme0n1p1 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Have you ever watched Kitboga? Scammers call people back all the time. They keep spreadsheets of their marks like a CRM. It takes time to build trust and victimize someone, and these scammers are very patient. |
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| ▲ | ronsor 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Scammers will gladly wait on hold for 10 hours a day, for a week, if they think they'll get their Bitcoin. They have infinite time and patience. | | |
| ▲ | izacus 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | It sounds like the 24 hour advanced flow should be completely removed then to protect these people. Right? It can't be perfect so to follow you, it should not exist. |
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| ▲ | Xelbair 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| they wouldn't wait an hour either. |
