| ▲ | pibaker 4 days ago |
| I wonder where the gulf states are going to end up. They have tried hard to build economies that aren't just fossil fuel exports. Tourism, trade, finance, luxury living for rich foreigners… but everything they have tried is contingent on peace in the region. I doubt foreigners are looking forward to layovers in Dubai now there are Iranian drones heading their way. Maybe future travelers will not see two trunkless legs in a desert, but empty condo towers and abandoned super cars still loaded with labubus. |
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| ▲ | sateesh 4 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| Presume the reference to trunkless legs is to the Shelly's famous poem Ozymandias (https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46565/ozymandias) |
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| ▲ | lelanthran 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Maybe future travelers will not see two trunkless legs in a desert, but empty condo towers and abandoned super cars still loaded with labubus. Maybe they actually will gaze upon it and despair (just not for the reason the original poem said :-)) |
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| ▲ | markus_zhang 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Well at least they will have much less money to meddle in Africa, I guess. |
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| ▲ | morkalork 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Yes, what's happening in the Sahel absolutely barbaric and is shamefully swept under the rug in Western media because of the countries sponsoring it. |
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| ▲ | jmstfv 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They're done. They export oil/LNG, import food, invest the proceeds in the US companies/treasuries and brand themselves as logistics hubs + safe havens for the global rich. It's all out of the window now. |
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| ▲ | mkoubaa 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Some of them will not exist at all in their current form by summer |
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| ▲ | 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | lm28469 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| They also spent decades sending money to the US to buy influence and protection, which instantly vaporized the second a missile was launched their way. |
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| ▲ | cpursley 4 days ago | parent [-] | | The big story I think is how handily they took out billions of dollars of US radars and that these air defense systems are not up to the task (we actually already knew this from Ukraine, but media worked overtime to ignore this fact). In a way, all this supposedly "superior" US and Israeli tech (at least on the defense side, offense is a different story) has been exposed. I do think focused engineering efforts could close this gap, that was needed already 4 years ago. | | |
| ▲ | lukan 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It actually works pretty well, considering how much they do shoot down, but if there is enough incoming, some will get through. | | |
| ▲ | lm28469 4 days ago | parent [-] | | > It actually works pretty well As long as you don't look at the receipts yes, technically it works very well, in every other aspect it's a massive waste of resource and money. | | |
| ▲ | lukan 4 days ago | parent [-] | | The war in itself? For sure, but if a million dollar rocket saves a billion dollar radar system against a 50.000 drone, it still seems working as intended. | | |
| ▲ | lm28469 4 days ago | parent [-] | | 10+ radars have been destroyed, I'm not sure which ones were "saved" https://abcnews.com/International/us-allied-radar-sites-midd... | | |
| ▲ | dmix 4 days ago | parent [-] | | That doesn't say 10+ radars have been destroyed. It says radar sites have been attacked 10 times across 7 locations in 6 countries, with some damaged and some destroyed. This biggest loss was the mobile THAAD radar in Jordan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/TPY-2_transportable_radar There's also evidence they hit a building in Saudi Arabia containing a AN/TPY-2 but it's not clear if it was damaged Plus a couple videos of fixed radomes getting hit by drones Defending against ballistic missiles is well known to not be perfect, even against Iran's lest sophisticated missiles it's very difficult. But the high end missile systems are worth trying. The main problem is the lack of cheap drone interceptors which has been a blaring siren since Ukraine war started that the US neglected by not treating it as an emergency. | | |
| ▲ | cpursley 4 days ago | parent [-] | | C-RAM radars - at least one US embassy was hit with an elcheapo drone as well, rendering it useless. Thats a legit problem and was only possible because they took out most of the important ballistics radars first. | | |
| ▲ | dmix 4 days ago | parent [-] | | How would a THAAD in Jordan help stop drones in Iraq? That's not the only radar they operate. The C-RAM was in Baghdad, the high end radars hit were in the other gulf states. The CWIS is probably the best anti-drone tool the US has but they have far too little of them and can get overwhelmed. They should have listened to Ukraine. |
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| ▲ | dboreham 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No serious person believes ballistic missile defense works. This isn't a fringe belief. There was a major movie with this theme released last year. | | |
| ▲ | rootusrootus 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Isn't this a different thing? I tend to assume when someone is talking about ballistic missile defense, they are thinking of ICBMs. A House of Dynamite is an example of that. But that seems substantially different from the regional missile defense that seems much more effective. Mach 5 is pretty fast, but Mach 25 is considerably faster. | |
| ▲ | mrguyorama 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The lay public is almost certainly unaware that perfect, nation scale ICBM defense is fucking impossible. At least in the US. People in Israel are probably more accustomed to what a "High but not perfect" interception rate means. But people in the US are just really dumb about things. They probably think it just needs "Enough money" or "A breakthrough" as if that's just a magic spell you can cast to get around physics. However, modern anti-ballistic missile defense systems are effective enough that if you spend enough money you can defeat, with high probability, half to most of the incoming weapons. It involves firing many many interceptors against each incoming threat. It does not scale. This is why it is generally deployed as a way to blunt, possibly not even defeat a North Korean nuclear attack. Nothing more. Shorter range ballistic missiles suck. They still have the crazy high velocity terminal phase, but they are way cheaper to produce. I don't think it's possible to defend against them economically. | | |
| ▲ | ViewTrick1002 4 days ago | parent [-] | | And now Iran is deploying ballistic missiles with cluster munitions separating in flight. Good luck countering that, especially if they steer to be able to steer them. | | |
| ▲ | maratc 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Cluster munitions that have between 1 and 10 kg of explosives are great against the infantry in the open field, not so much against population with proper level of shelters and an advanced warning to get there. |
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| ▲ | 0dayz 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is not mostly true: Israel's anti air defense works surprisingly well against Iran's attack, the issue has always been 2 things: Who has more missiles to throw? And the Patriot is still top class in it's designed goal: shooting down ballistic and cruise missiles. The second big thing is that no one has designed air defense to take into account effectively slow moving artillery pieces that have the same maneuverability as a missile. Because that is what drones are and what has been the biggest glaring problem for but the USA, Israel and Russia (the gulf states both use Russian and US anti air defense). | | |
| ▲ | cpursley 4 days ago | parent [-] | | The aging Patriot in particular was exposed in Ukraine. You can watch video after video of them failing even against older ballistics - they have basically no chance against hypersonic and other fast ballistics, especially ones with active measures (flares, maneuvering - there was a really wild one from a few weeks back). And there's a number out of this conflict as well. The are still great at shooting down jets, however. Top of class is actually S-4/500, this is basically acknowledged fact by even the Pentagon at this point. I think a lot of people are in denial about this due to a combo of Hollywood narrative and ideological reasons, but the Russians math very good - it's reality. But even so, those are not the right systems for fighting drone attacks - nobody really has it together with that. Both of these are solvable problems, it's just a lot of hard math + piles of money. | | |
| ▲ | 0dayz 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It has around 42-77% success rate according to Ukraine themselves against specifically Iskander 9M723 and KN-23. And your comment makes 0 sense considering S-400 was more designed against aircrafts and cruise missiles than ballistic missiles. | | |
| ▲ | mrguyorama 4 days ago | parent [-] | | And that success rate comes after significant improvements to the Russian weapons and finesse. They were much less effective early in the war. Cat and mouse is always a factor in war. The patriot wasn't very good when it was first introduced and took some refining to become the gold standard, which it still is. It still works very well against planes too, reaching out and downing EWACS aircraft at the edge of it's range. They were neither designed nor expected to have 100% defense rate, but 50% is lower than expected. 75% isn't great either. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > aging Patriot in particular was exposed in Ukraine. You can watch video after video of them failing even against older ballistics Decades-old Patriots shot down Russia's newest "hypersonic" missile. > Top of class is actually S-4/500, this is basically acknowledged fact by even the Pentagon at this point What? Source? You're describing the systems that have been getting floored the world over. Why do you think nobody is placing orders for these anymore? |
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| ▲ | roncesvalles 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is completely contrary to reality. Iran is a missile and rocketry superpower. They've launched a lot of stuff, some of which got through. | | |
| ▲ | cpursley 4 days ago | parent [-] | | There’s a number of videos of US and Israeli air defense quite literally failing at intercepts. You can see the entire trajectories and stuff. Some from US bases, other in Israel but they are trying to censor them. | | |
| ▲ | dzhiurgis 3 days ago | parent [-] | | When you launch 5000 missiles and 1% are missed - that's still 50 hits. For intercepts - there are absolute tons of AI videos out there. I wouldn't trust anything unless it's from reputable OSINT channel. |
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| ▲ | nradov 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The Israeli missile defense systems have worked amazingly well considering the scale of the threat. | | |
| ▲ | clydethefrog 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Just last night: "It’s worth pointing out that Hezbollah has managed to get rockets right down to the south of Israel today – and that is unprecedented. Never before has Hezbollah managed to get rockets so far south into Israel." https://aje.news/b8762y?update=4414645 | | |
| ▲ | myth_drannon 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Sending is easy, but hitting something... They are shooting at an open desert and Gaza while exposing their launch teams. |
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| ▲ | cpursley 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not against the fast ballistics. | | | |
| ▲ | lm28469 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Is this why they're silencing anyone talking about damages and arresting anyone taking videos/photos ? |
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