| ▲ | tharmas 5 hours ago |
| You have to restrict investors buying up that newly built housing too. Homes for people. Not investors. |
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| ▲ | triceratops 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| No not really. You just have to restrict the same investor from buying all the housing in an area, and prevent investors from colluding on rents. |
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| ▲ | tharmas 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Investors add to demand for housing. This will help drive up prices. And no, builders will not necessarily increase supply if they can realise increased margin of profit due to increased demand. We see that with RAM manufacturers. RAM suppliers constrain supply to boost margins. Same with house builders. The difference is people can go without RAM but everyone needs a place to live. | | |
| ▲ | triceratops 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Investors add to demand for housing And here I thought people who want to live in houses add to demand for housing. Investors buy houses that people want to live in. If people don't want to live someplace, you won't see any investors there either. | | |
| ▲ | greyface- 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | 1 house is built. Alice wants to own it to live in it. Bob wants to own it to rent it to Alice. 2 people want to own the house. | | |
| ▲ | chii 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > 2 people want to own the house. and so how do you decide who gets it? 1) morally. Alice deserves it because her intention is more pure. 2) financially. Bob gets it, because he can pay more for it than alice. Which choice above you make as a policy direction is a reflection of your world view. I'm voting for 2), but i can understand the POV of 1), even tho i disagree with it. | | |
| ▲ | hunterpayne an hour ago | parent [-] | | You are entirely missing the point. The correct answer is to build 2 houses. The problem with these policies is that they artificially restrict demand. If they didn't do that, nobody would have a problem with them. | | |
| ▲ | chii 10 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > The correct answer is to build 2 houses the utopian answer is to build two houses. But we don't live in utopia. The constraints faced today is real (paper or physical). You can't wish it away, and you can't say it's "easier" to just build two houses. |
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| ▲ | 9rx 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > And here I thought people who want to live in houses add to demand for housing. Desire is a necessary component in demand, but it also requires willingness at a given price point. If houses are selling for $1,000,000 and you only have $500,000 to spend, then no matter how much you dream every night about having a home, you are not a contributor to demand. | | |
| ▲ | triceratops 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Counterpoint: houses sell for $1,000,000 because there are more people with $500,000 (and every other number less than $1,000,000) who want those houses than there are houses. | | |
| ▲ | 9rx 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | How is that a counterpoint? It says the same thing with different words. |
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| ▲ | bryanlarsen 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 35% of Americans rent their homes. And they almost invariably rent from investors. Therefore if more than 35% of homes are owned by investors this drives down rent. If less than 35% are owned by investors rent goes up. |
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| ▲ | ms_menardi 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This logic assumes that 35% of Americans WANT to rent their home. Which seems odd to me, if only for financial reasons - why would you pay 1400$ for a 1 bedroom apartment when you could pay 700$ in a mortgage for that same apartment if you could have bought it? | | |
| ▲ | triceratops 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If you invent a scenario where the mortgage is half the rent then buying is a no-brainer. Does that reflect reality? | | |
| ▲ | TimorousBestie 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Maybe not half, but it’s pretty common around here (generic midwestern city) for renting to be more expensive than a comparable mortgage. Many landlords seem to expect to pay their mortgage and property taxes and maintenance with the rental income, and still net a profit, if r/landlord is to be believed. | | |
| ▲ | triceratops 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The profit is compensation for the risk. The mortgage and property taxes and maintenance are due no matter what - can't find a tenant, tenant doesn't pay, tenant flushes paper towels down the toilets every day etc etc. If there was no profit there would be no landlords. Some might say that's great. But it would be a world with less flexibility, with fewer choices. Don't like your job and want to move? Split up with your partner and need someplace to live? Moved to a new city and don't know where you want to put down roots yet? At college for 4 years? Don't want to deal with house maintenance? "F** you, buy a house anyway". That's what we'd have if there was no rental housing. | | |
| ▲ | TimorousBestie 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Okay, so why were you asking if renting can be more expensive than buying? You seem to already know that it can be. | | |
| ▲ | triceratops 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I said they were inventing fantasy scenarios. The actual numbers might be more like rent $1400 vs mortgage $1000. After property taxes, insurance, and maintenance there might be $50 left. A handsome 3.5% profit, rising to maybe 6-7% if you include principal paydown. This is hardly a money-printing machine. It's a steady return for taking on some risk. | | |
| ▲ | TimorousBestie 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ah, I see, you wanted to split hairs on the numbers. Fair enough. | | |
| ▲ | triceratops 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It isn't splitting hairs. The numbers actually matter. | | |
| ▲ | TimorousBestie 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | It’s at risk of becoming a fractal of splitting hairs. Substituting your numbers in for theirs doesn’t change much. It’s still more expensive to rent. Kind of an unhelpful tangent to the discussion, really. | | |
| ▲ | triceratops 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Substituting your numbers in for theirs doesn’t change much You can buy a boat for $10 or rent one for $9. Assuming you really want a boat, would you buy or rent? Do my numbers reflect reality? Do they have a bearing on the choice you make? |
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| ▲ | albedoa 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | ?? How in the world is it splitting hairs to point out that those numbers don't make sense. It is directly relevant to the question of how many Americans want to rent. You don't need to be like this :( |
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| ▲ | chii 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > renting to be more expensive than a comparable mortgage. that doesn't sound plausible. May be for a select few properties that are in some unique circumstance (e.g., the seller of the property would sell underpriced because they needed quick sale). And often, in arguments like these, the rent is the rent, but the mortgage is purely the interest on the loan, and doesn't count the maintenance cost, and doesn't count the deposit required (which has a cost, ala the cost of capital). If you added up all these costs, it exceeds rent. | |
| ▲ | hunterpayne an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | You do know that the posters on r/landlord are often selling services to landlords and thus have a financial incentive to make being a landlord seem attractive. Its a pretty safe assumption that reality isn't that rosy. |
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| ▲ | maest 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The numbers you are using are not common at all. | |
| ▲ | KPGv2 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > why would you pay 1400$ for a 1 bedroom apartment when you could pay 700$ in a mortgage for that same apartment if you could have bought it Because the down payment you put into your purchased home could've been put into the stock market and grown faster than property values (this is historically true). Because you don't want the headache of home maintenance. Because in the 21st century, job stability doesn't exist so it's a big risk to buy a home fifteen minutes from your current job that might be an hour from your new job after you get fired so a CEO can get more golden parachutes. Because you might have to change cities a year from now. My wife and I rented for a long time because it was better than owning for us. | | |
| ▲ | frontfor 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Agreed. It’s a classic fallacy to compare rent vs mortgage on a numbers to numbers basis. It’s classic example of not accounting for the total cost of ownership. |
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| ▲ | bsder 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > 35% of Americans rent their homes. And they almost invariably rent from investors. Therefore if more than 35% of homes are owned by investors this drives down rent. If less than 35% are owned by investors rent goes up. This only holds until the percentage owned by the investors becomes a monopolistic chunk. At that point the investors would rather leave some apartments empty rather than see rents go down. See: all the current RealPage lawsuits |
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| ▲ | creato 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| It really doesn't matter as long as someone is living in it. |