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riknos314 7 hours ago

So glad we don't need to re-write the first chapter of almost every economics 101 textbook!

cm11 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think this is simple econ 101. Yes with more houses we should expect lower prices, but also with high prices we should expect more houses produced. All that is econ 101, but that second econ 101 prediction isn't happening. I would guess that some will chalk it up to vaguely (though not necessarily wrong) jerks/idiots blocking it. Whether it's because nimbyers want to keep their home values (what we should expect from econ) or it's broken city politics, there are lots of things going on here. It's more complicated.

muyuu 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

it's crazy that people nowadays seriously question basic market pressure being a thing

varenc 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm with you, but many people still question this. Here's a recent pre-print paper that was in the news arguing that inequality, not lack of supply, is the real source of housing affordability: https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/95trz_v1

rcpt 6 hours ago | parent [-]

The black pill about that story isn't that a (crappy) preprint exists, it's that it got coverage in the press and was viral on social sites.

hunterpayne 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

Telling people lies that they want to believe has always been profitable.

datsci_est_2015 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Who are the people that “seriously question basic market pressure being a thing”? Am I missing something?

terminalshort 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Just look through the comments on any post about housing or immigration and you will see hordes of them.

CalRobert 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Every leftist European nimby party comes to mind.

ivewonyoung 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There was an article on HN front page a few months ago which stated(paraphrased) "building more housing to reduce prices is a right wing ideology that doesn't match reality" or some such. I'll reply here if I find it.

datsci_est_2015 4 hours ago | parent [-]

hn.algolia.com is a great search interface. I searched “housing” and top posts in the past year and didn’t see anything related to your quote on the first two pages. Maybe I need to search deeper.

ivewonyoung 4 hours ago | parent [-]

What I paraphrased wasn't in the article headline but inside the text, almost in passing.

The best I could find was a couple of comments from two years ago which have a similar theme.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39206707

terminalshort 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Housing and immigration are two areas where people just can't accept basic economics. You can see some olympic level mental gymnastics routines all over this comments section.

lesuorac 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Eh, people really need to be questioning econ 101 more often.

It's built upon untrue assumptions

- infinite buyers / sellers

- perfect information

- no switching / transaction costs

---

The article itself has 3 different year ranges provided so I'm not sure how you can use it as evidence. Plus overall the rent is still up by a lot since 93% - 4% is still at least 80%.

- Rents increase by 93% from 2010 to 2019

- Housing increase from 2015 to 2024 (this overlaps with when rents increased ...)

- Rents fell from 2021 to 2026 by 4%

energy123 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

First year economics models all these things, through behavioral economics, microeconomics and utility theory. It's the basics.

Qwertious 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Housing is also really weird:

- the main input (land) is also an output, so when the price of the output goes up, so does the value of the input.

- economies of scale don't really work, due to the impracticality of transporting the good (houses) and fitting the good inside a machine (in house "factories", normal workers go inside the house and work on it by hand; not a lot changes compared to traditional construction)

- more supply in one area increases the value (and therefore demand) in that area, so it's not actually clear-cut whether building more would reduce the price more than it increases it, at first glance.

pembrook 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Ah yes, that 150 year old meme reflexively copy-pasta'd by internet commenters since the days of usenet to refute basic concepts like supply and demand.

"Lol economists are dumb they think humans are robots!"

No they don't. Sorry, we won't be throwing away an entire field of human endeavor based on a straw man caricature that isn't true.

We don't call physicists dumb and throw out their ideas because the real world isn't a perfect vacuum either. They know this, don't be silly.

tkel 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's loads of other inefficiencies as well. Moving is a huge hurdle. It's difficult to find housing that meets dozens of conditions, and even then you don't respond to supply + demand imagined equilibrium, you pay more or pay less to live near friends or family. It's something you only do a handful of times in your whole life. Trying to use the same analysis as for buying a can of beans is absurd. You might need to take econ 201 before you understand why econ 101 is wrong about housing.

triceratops 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> It's difficult to find housing that meets dozens of conditions

Correct. That's why when there's more housing you're more likely to find what you need.

bluGill 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

False. Even if you don't move, people move all the time and that moves the needle for everyone.

svpk 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not really, it used to be the case that a full third of Americans moved every year. Obviously life is more complicated than econ 101, but it's also obvious that a current undersupply of housing is one of, if not the primary, drivers of home pricing. Admittedly other factors like the governments interference in the home loan space have also had large effects on the market over the last century.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2025/03/america...

thesmtsolver2 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You need Econ 301 and stats 101 to see Econ 201 is wrong.

kortilla 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

“People like to drink certain kinds of beer” and “some people don’t drink beer often” are not arguments against supply and demand driving beer prices.

tkel 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Prices in massively inefficient markets do not follow the supply + demand equilibrium. Beer is not an inefficient market. You're doing the absurd comparison.

pocksuppet 5 hours ago | parent [-]

It's more correct to say supply and demand still drive the overall average, but in a high-friction market of unique items, every single case is still a unique case. It's not like moving wheat bushels or RAM chips. When they sell oil, they mix up all the oil from different producers in the same reservoir, in the same tanks. Electricity travels in the same wires. Housing is nothing like that.

hunterpayne 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

"they mix up all the oil from different producers in the same reservoir"

Only when avoiding sanctions, not normally. And housing does follow economic principles no matter how much you wish that wasn't so.

paulnpace 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm not clear: does Econ 201 inform us as to how demand and supply are not related to price?

tkel 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, you learn why supply + demand curves do not actually describe many markets

paulnpace 6 hours ago | parent [-]

So, if instead of installing a bunch of apps, setting up search filters, and refreshing browser tabs on my phone ever 15-30 minutes, then the instant something meets my parameters I immediately leave work and, if possible, make a deposit on a new place, I open an app and find 5000 places meeting my requirements, meet them when I'm not working and on my time, and tell them I like a different one better so I'll hold off before making a decision, makes no difference on the price?

fragmede 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

it says "it's complicated".

malkosta 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, it describes human nature better than psychology. We can’t fight even knowing about it.

ghostly_s 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

the snark is quite rich when reading beyond the headline makes clear this was anything but a free market solution.

mgfist 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

OP wasn't talking about free markets but supply and demand.

thesmtsolver2 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You should read again. The reforms made the market more free.

tkel 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They also teach you about elasticity in econ 101. It's foolish and anti-intellectual to insist that the housing market has only two factors, while simultaneously condescending about your understanding of economics shows that you really don't understand economics, it's more about your ego.

7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It's foolish and anti-intellectual to insist that the housing market has only two factors

Elasticitiy moderates the effect. It doesn't reverse it. Increasing housing supply decreases housing costs. A lot of people are venally or ideologically motivated against accepting this. Our housing crisis is a political choice. (Note: I'm a homeowner.)

mr_00ff00 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This reminds of a fun fact I remember learning in university.

Elasticity is the relationship between demand and supply, and there are actually very rare instances where it can be negative (where demand increases with price).

These are called Giffen goods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffen_good

Explanation (that I remember)

Inelastic demand is when a good is demanded so much, that an increase in price has little affect on the total quantity (people still demand it, think like addictive substances)

So a perfectly inelastic product would be a straight line where any amount is demanded at any price.

So having the curve keep going it would get a positive slope, where higher price makes demand go up.

If I remember the example I was given was food during a famine. Supply is already low, but an additional pressure on price is the known shortage. The idea being that as the price goes up people see it as harder to get.

It’s been so long since I studied the subject so I might have gotten some things wrong here.

thaumasiotes 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> These are called Giffen goods.

The terminology is actually split; sometimes they're called Giffen goods and sometimes they're called Veblen goods.

The two types have identical behavior, so there's no good reason to have two different names, but in concept Giffen goods are something poor people buy, while Veblen goods are something rich people buy.

(There is a difference if you're willing to look at responses to changes other than a change in the price of a good: if you give a household more money, it will increase consumption of Veblen goods, but decrease consumption of Giffen goods.)

JumpCrisscross 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Cool! Thanks!

peder 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> A lot of people are venally or ideologically motivated against accepting this.

That’s the story of the last 10 years among certain types that keep regurgitating obviously wrong concepts.

JumpCrisscross 6 hours ago | parent [-]

> That’s the story of the last 10 years

The urban orthodoxy is around demand rationing. Supply-side arguments are incredibly new. The evidence cuts in one direction. (Unless we want a hukou system.)

Aurornis 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The parent comment never claimed that the housing market only has two factors. You’re arguing against a strawman of your own creation.