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Zaheer 3 hours ago

Keep in mind who pays for the replacements - U.S. Citizens to the tune of $317.9 billion over the last 70 years [1].

https://taxpayersforpeace.org/

IncreasePosts 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

When you put it that way it seems pretty cheap.

alephnerd an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As I mentioned earlier, this was because the alternative was Israel fully aligning with the PRC in the 1990s-2000s.

During the 1980s-90s, Israel scrapped the IAI Lavi program and transferred it's IP to the Deng administration [0][1]. This was the precursor of the J-XX program which spawned the J-10, JF-17, and J-20. This continued until 2005 [2].

Saudi Arabia did the same thing in the 1980s as well, working with the PRC on the Dongfeng program and helping formalize the Pakistan-China relationship [3].

Even Israel's nuclear, jet fighter, and submarine program was due to a similar technology transfer Gaullist France did in the 1950s-60s [4] in order to retain strategic autonomy against the US and an ally to protect it's access to the Suez Canal in what became the Suez Crisis [5].

On the other hand, the US successfully prevented similar attempts by South Korea and Taiwan in the 1970s-80s.

The Cold War was a crazy time.

Edit: can't reply

> we did not give Saudi Arabia $317.9 billion despite you saying that they "did the same thing"

We turned a blind eye to Saudi Arabia financially supporting Pakistan's nuclear program in the 1981 [6] as well as stopped India from striking Pakistan in 1981 [7]. This was what has been the core of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan's mutual defense agreement for decades [3].

We could have stopped Saudi and Pakistan like we stopped Taiwan back then [8], but we didn't.

> the Zionist colony

Not a fan of that framing.

There was no reason for Iraqis to commit the Farhud, Imam Yahyi mandating all Yemeni Jews either convert to Islam or leave Yemen, Morroccans to commit the Oujda and Jerada riots, Libyans to commit the Tripolitania pogrom, and other instances in the Arab world that forced millions of Mizrahis to uproot and move to Israel in the 1940s. Israel's population has been heavily Mizrahi since those exoduses.

Similarly, Ashkenazim and Sephardim from Central and Eastern Europe and the Balkans wouldn't have left for Israel in the 1930s-40s if those states didn't collaborate in the HOLOCAUST.

There was a chance for normalization in the 2000s - especially under Shimon Peres - but the rise of Hamas ended that.

[0] - https://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/12/world/israel-selling-chin...

[1] - https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-12-28-mn-13774-...

[2] - https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/...

[3] - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24823846

[4] - https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000271219.pdf

[5] - https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/lw/97179.htm

[6] - https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/01/18/Saudis-reportedly-wi...

[7] - https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/0005403744

[8] - https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2019-0...

gravisultra an hour ago | parent [-]

We give Israel money because of lobbying and blackmail, there was never any valid interest in the US supporting the Zionist colony. You'll note that we did not give Saudi Arabia $317.9 billion despite you saying that they "did the same thing".

alephnerd 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

spaghetdefects 2 hours ago | parent [-]

There were plenty of other alternatives, starting with sanctions against Israel and followed with military action. The boomer generation's support for Israel created a very odd relationship that was entirely one way. Younger generations will certainly reverse this.

alephnerd 2 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

spaghetdefects 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The US has given over $300B to Israel since its creation: https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-foreign-aid-does-the-u...

That does not count the money we've spent fighting their wars. We could have cut that off and sanctioned them at any time if they worked against our interests. Israel's strategy has been to compromise US leadership to stop this from happening, and until recently it was successful at that.

alephnerd 2 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

spaghetdefects 2 hours ago | parent [-]

And as I mentioned, there are other alternatives like sanctions against Israel and military action against Israel. It's a tiny country, 100% reliant on outside support to exist. The US has always had the ability to end Israel.