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coldtea 3 hours ago

>>> Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications. >This is absolutely not true.Here in the UK schools are swarming with ipads and shit like that. They're given to primary school children because they're "more engaging". Children are supposed to practice their reading and even handwriting on ipads. Naturally they're on youtube instead. It's really bad.

And how does that refute what the parent said? Those school ipads could also have YouTube locked or restricted to a whitelist of channels.

ekjhgkejhgk 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Those school ipads could also have YouTube locked or restricted to a whitelist of channels.

There's so much wrong here.

A) there's ways around that stuff that any child can figure out.

B) schools aren't in fact obligated to enable those, and some don't.

C) who decides on what channels are allowed? The school does. But teachers are basically people off the street that did some basic training and (from my experience) have zero critical thinking. This are not the best and brightest.

D) big tech will tell you "this is age appropriate" and the only thing that means is that you probably won't see porn. Anything else, including gambling ads on youtube, you do see.

You see, you're trying to discuss the specifics which in this case is a losing approach if your goal is to protect your chidlren from being victimized by the attention economy. The reason is that those benefiting from the attention economy have more lawyers and more engineers to deploy than any individual parent.

coldtea 3 hours ago | parent [-]

>A) there's ways around that stuff that any child can figure out.

No, there are not for hardware locked devices with the proper controls (what apps, websites, etc to allow).

>B) schools aren't in fact obligated to enable those, and some don't.

The technical problem is solved, if they don't want to implement the solution that's on them.

>C) who decides on what channels are allowed? The school does. But teachers are basically people off the street that did some basic training and (from my experience) have zero critical thinking. This are not the best and brightest.

Again, irrelevant. A common policy can be created (e.g. by ministry of education experts) and shared with schools.

ekjhgkejhgk 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> > B) schools aren't in fact obligated to enable those, and some don't.

> The technical problem is solved, if they don't want to implement the solution that's on them.

Just to be clear - do you not understand that a parent might be parenting, but some times their children is in care of a school? Your focus on "a technical solution exists" is missing the real issue here, and it's not a technical one.

coldtea 37 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I'm talking about both parents and schools: the technical solution exists. If parents/schools don't want to implement it, that's on them.

This answers your objection A and B. C is also a non-probem with a trivial fix, as I showed.

What we're discussing is whether age verification is needed. Based on the existence of other, perfectly fine solutions, it's not. "But schools don't bother implementing those other solutions" is not a counter-argument to this discussion.

HeavyStorm 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Same argument(s) can be applied to age verification.

pbhjpbhj 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>but some times their children is in care of a school?

And not only that but some of those times are dinner break, on a school campus with a thousand other kids and barely any supervision. Even if phones are banned, it's easy to hide one and for a child to be showing their friends unhinged stuff they found on 4chan.

And some of those times are on a bus carrying at least 50 kids when they're 'supervised' only by a driver ... and so on.

coldtea 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

>Even if phones are banned, it's easy to hide one and for a child to be showing their friends unhinged stuff they found on 4chan.

That would still reduce ther exposure by 1-2 orders of magnitude, which is perfectly acceptable.

ericd 34 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean, we all saw the occasional heinous stuff, goatse, lemon party, etc, that doesn't ruin you. I don't think preventing them from ever seeing anything disturbing is a realistic goal. It's more an issue when kids are allowed to be fully addicted on an ongoing basis instead of spending their time doing things that help them grow. I think keeping them from spending all their free time on youtube or in Roblox is more the goal.

nrabulinski 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But this thread is discussing the technical solution and how many jurisdictions are pretending there’s no technical solutions just so they can pass surveillance legislation?

curt15 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The schools could also simply not distribute tablets or laptops to students. The technology has not produced noticeably better readers, thinkers, or writers compared to the days when students read actual books and wrote on paper.

coldtea 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

In fact this would be a great way to curb LLM cheating