this is a category error that i specifically called out in my comment.

What is the category of code that does not need quality? You need it to not interact with real world, with people's finances, with people's personal data. Basically it's the code that only exists for PMs to show to investors (in startups) and VPs (in enterprise), but not for real users to rely on.

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aleph_minus_one 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> What is the category of code that does not need quality?

For example there exist "applications"/"demos" that exist "to show the customer what could be possible if they hire 'us'". These demos just have to survive a, say, intense two-hour marketing pitch and some inconvenient questions/tests that someone in the audience might come up with during these two hours.

In other words: applications for "pitching possibilities" to a potential customer, where everything is allowed to be smoke and mirrors if necessary (once the customer has been convinced with all tricks to hire the respective company for the project, the requirements will completely change anyway ...).

	▲	oytis an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Yeah, that's what I mean - prototypes. The caveat is though that before agentic coding skills to build a prototype and skills to build a production system were generally the same, so a prototype did not only provide a demonstration of what is possible in general, but what your team of engineers can do specifically. Now these skills will diverge, so prototypes will not prove anything like that. They are still going to be useful for demonstrations and market research though.

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wiseowise 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Where?

> That does not mean you are correct. This mindset is useful only in serious reusable libraries and open source tools. Most enterprise code involves lots of exploring and fast iteration. Code quality doesn’t matter that much. No one else is going to see it.

Here? Most of those that I’ve listed IS boring enterprise code. Unless we’re taking medical/military grade.

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simianwords 4 hours ago | parent [-]

fair, you have presented specific niche where the ~quality~ correctness is important in enterprise - not just libraries.

but most people aren't writing code in those places. its usually CRUD, advertisement, startups, ecommerce.

also there are two things going on here:

- quality of code

- correctness of code

in serious reusable libraries and opensource tools, quality of code matters. the interfaces, redundancy etc.

but that's not exactly equal to correctness. one can prioritise correctness without dogmatism in craft like clean code etc.

in most of these commercial contexts like ecommerce, ads - you don't need the dogmatism that the craft camp brings. that's the category error.

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skydhash 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Maybe you’re too entrenched in the web section of software development. Be aware that there’s a lot of desktop and system software out there.

Even in web software, you can write good code without compromising in delivery speed. That just requires you to be good at what you’re doing. But the web is more forgiving of mistakes and a lot of frameworks have no taste at all.

	▲	simianwords 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Do you think more sdes work in mission critical software or the ones I mentioned?