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mr_briggs 6 hours ago

> A Chromebook’s ceiling is made of web browser, and the things you run into are not the edges of computing but the edges of a product category designed to save you from yourself.

I'm in the same boat as the author; I cut my teeth on a hand-me-down 2005 eMac, then a hand-me-down 2008 Macbook, before finally getting my own 2011 iMac. I think this is overly harsh on Chromebooks given they belong to the cheaper end of the market - you can still put linux on them and go for gold, you're just going to hit earlier resource limits.

I think when you're younger and building an aptitude for computers, it's the limitations of what you have that drive an off-the-shelf challenge: doing what you can with what you've got. That can vary from just trying to play the same video games as your friends (love what /r/lowendgaming does), usage restrictions (e.g locked down school issued laptops) or running professional tooling (very slowly) just like the author.

When IT caught my interest, I did all of the above - on Mac, Windows and Linux, on completely garbage machines. The Macbook Neo is an awesome machine for it's cost/value, but I don't think it's hugely special in the respect described beyond making more power available at a more accessible price point.

BoxOfRain an hour ago | parent | next [-]

When my mates at school had the aero glass effect on the new Windows, my ancient hand-me-down laptop wouldn't even try to run it. It could however run Compiz somewhat if it was persuaded very hard!

That's basically the reason I learned Linux initially, and those hours debugging video driver issues would serve me well later on.

mauzybwy 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Man I got a computer engineering degree in 2015 with a $200 Chromebook chrooted into Debian. And I worked professionally for years on an 8gb MacBook Air. The Neo is definitely something younger me would be interested in.

jjice 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Did the same for my freshman year of Uni on a $99 Chromebook. Java and C dev on 4GB of ram wasn't an issue.

That said, I quickly upgraded to a 4 year used Thinkpad and that was a huge difference.

xattt 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> $200 Chromebook chrooted into Debian

Are there even any x86 Chromebooks left at that price point? They are only one that are still capable of chrooting into Linux. ARM Chromebooks remain locked up.

mattnewton an hour ago | parent [-]

There were a bunch of intel atom ones IIRC. I got my degree with a used EEEpc with one of those.

xyzzy_plugh 19 minutes ago | parent [-]

As did I. The most unbelievable part is that we used that tiny keyboard.

coldtea an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean, never mind younger us. I have a M5 MBP and even I am tempted for a Neo for travelling

glhaynes an hour ago | parent [-]

There is truly no space in my device repertoire for a Neo and I can say that with confidence because of how much time I've spent trying to find one.

zephen 37 minutes ago | parent [-]

"Finding Neo"

saagarjha 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When Chromebooks originally came out, that was not an option. And almost all school-issued computers will not let you do this.

ghoulishly an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Author of the post here. You nailed it here; I used Chromebook as the example in my post since the one I used in high school was locked down to basically a kiosk. Couldn’t even open dev tools, much less root it. Such a wild departure from the eMacs I used in my elementary school’s library where I could set bonkers `defaults write` commands and customize every aspect of my account.

If I got a Chromebook as a personal machine as a kid, I probably would’ve rooted it and see what I could do, but growing up, the beauty of the Mac (in that Snow Leopard era) was progressive disclosure. I could start on the happy path and have a perfectly stable machine, then customize the behaviors through the terminal, see what it does, mess with the system files, see what breaks, revert it, then go back to using iMovie like normal.

In my (admittedly limited) time using a rooted Chromebook, it’s much more like a switch flip. You go from mandatory water wings directly into getting pushed into the ocean and Google shouting “Good luck!!”

tosti 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It was possible on the Acer model I got when it first came out, but it was still useless. A switch that wiped the whole thing back to defaults was needed to open a terminal and from there a shell script could install Ubuntu. It still ran the unmodifiable chromeos kernel with no updates and without some of the modules I'd like. And then the screen died.

It was junk. The EeePC was cheaper, lasted much longer and had Debian out of the box.

zeta0134 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've owned and used the CR-48 prototype Chromebook model, which very well did have a developer mode and a third kernel option built right in. Ran Ubuntu on it with no issues. This has been possible since before the device family was officially available for purchase.

The school thing is different, but also hardly unique. A school issued macbook is often similarly locked down and unusable as a dev machine, due to the student lacking permissions to install anything the school deems dangerous.

creshal 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That includes school-issued Macs, so I don't see how that's an argument against Chromebooks.

butILoveLife 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> The Macbook Neo is an awesome machine for it's cost/value

Uh... if you need to compile for iOS, sure.

But outside of that, no its not.

You are literally just paying the Apple tax that they deliberately choose.

hylaride 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Look, MacOS has certainly rotted over the past few years, but the primary reason I use it is because it's still a hundred times nicer to use than Windows (which is also regressing for worse reasons - shoving in AI and ads instead of benign neglect).

It's still the best desktop UNIX experience, especially since cheap PC laptops (and until very recently expensive ones) almost always have horrible build quality. It's also within only the last few years that PC trackpads came anywhere near the trackpads on Apple machines. Sometimes what you call a "tax" is literally some of us wanting quality.

butILoveLife 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Oh man, you NEED to use Fedora.

Fedora is the best OS humanity has ever made. No exaguration. There needs to be the best, and its Fedora.

Linux gets a bad reputation because 20-ish years ago Ubuntu sent out free CDs and became the dominant OS. Ubuntu/Mint is part of Debian family, outdated linux. They call outdated Linux 'stable', but its not stable like a table. Its software version frozen. Bugs that are fixed today wont get those fixes for 2 years. Not to mention, a new mouse you buy from amazon/nvidia card/web video player wont work due to the outdated nature of these distros. (And yes, I know you can do surgery to update it, but no one likes that)

Fedora is not Arch. Fedora is the consumer grade Red Hat.

jeswin an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> Linux gets a bad reputation because 20-ish years ago Ubuntu sent out free CDs and became the dominant OS.

I've been an Ubuntu user for 20 years, and RedHat and Suse prior to that. Ubuntu just worked. Debian had packages for everything, including from 3rd party vendors. It lets me focus on my work, and not worry about the OS, or compiling packages, or finding installers. When I had issues (rare), the large user base meant that someone had already figured out a solution to the problem.

The flavor of Linux doesn't matter so much in my opinion.

anthk 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Fedora Silverblue it's better and Cosmic Desktop looks good for a DE in every release (upcoming 44). For some isolated and rollbackable option, your only options are Silverblue and Guix for the hard way. If you use Nonguix for Guix, on your own, but I'd only use a nonfree kernel in an emergency (the wireless adapter somehow gets broken and the alternative is to boot the OS with propietary fw in order to buy a new one). And in that case I would blacklist every propietary fw except for the wireless ones.

And, yes, I have an overlaid Linux-Libre kernel in SilverBlue.

mghackerlady an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Glad to see someone else care so much about software freedom. Guix is great (though my ideal system would be debian with a shepherd init, fhs, and guix for non-root package management)

fsflover 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> For some isolated and rollbackable option, your only options are Silverblue and Guix for the hard way.

How about Qubes OS? Also the parent never said anything about isolation and roll-backs. Nobody mentioned Silverblue except you. The discussion is about ordinary users, not hackers.

butILoveLife 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Silverblue is supposed to be for normies. Rollbacks are for when you screw everything up.

But honestly I did not like Silverblue. I had a 13 year old gaming computer I installed it on and I couldnt get the ancient GPU drivers installed due to the way things are containerized. This would have been a few commands otherwise.

Maybe its fine for chromebook-like things. I might have picked a bad testcase.

Lalabadie an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

What amount of that 600$ cost do you reckon is the Apple tax? I'm curious what comparables you see, and how much they cost.