| ▲ | bitmasher9 11 hours ago |
| I hope they sell so many of these, because the Mac ecosystem is just better for learning about computers then what most young people use daily. |
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| ▲ | Stori_Rjomi 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| How? I grew up with Windows, learned decent skills on that, probably as much as I would have on a Mac. The current mobile era stuff has put alot or control and grit away, for making things 'more accessible'. |
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| ▲ | exmadscientist 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Windows would do just fine. But the state of cheap Windows laptops is abysmal, and Windows as a product is in the doghouse lately because... well, I honestly don't know why Microsoft is doing what they're doing, but from the outside they certainly do appear to want to ruin Windows. | |
| ▲ | fragmede 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | These days it would be an iPad though. | | |
| ▲ | idontwantthis 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Or a chromebook which is probably worse. | | |
| ▲ | zamadatix 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Chromebooks themselves can actually be great machines for hacking (in the traditional sense, not the modern security/jailbreaking sense). E.g. https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en is arguably better than a direct typical Linux install because it's an isolated environment which won't break the main function of the device as you tinker. As the page notes though, the real problem for kids is the devices are of course locked down: > Important: If you use your Chromebook at work or school, you might not be able to use Linux. For more information, contact your administrator. | | |
| ▲ | eru 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | I mostly agree. Just one thing: > (in the traditional sense, not the modern security/jailbreaking sense) As far as I can tell, the two senses have pretty much always existed side by side. Nothing traditional vs modern about it. |
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| ▲ | ActorNightly 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | TheDong 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| They don't have an open source kernel. You can't recompile the kernel or build your own device drivers. I'm not sure what you mean by "learning about computers", but I personally find being able to peek into the kernel source code to be more educational than anything in the mac ecosystem. The hardware here is incredible, but it's crippled by not adequately supporting Linux, BSD, or any other properly open source kernel you can compile and install yourself. A good learning environment doesn't put up immovable barriers like "you need a kernel signed by apple", it lets you push away barriers when you're ready, like "Are you sure you want to turn off secureboot, or install your own secureboot keys" |
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| ▲ | GavinMcG 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I’d bet 99% of professional developers have never peeked at kernel source code or built their own device drivers. | | |
| ▲ | TheDong 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The parent commenter said "learning about computers". Most "professional developers" don't learn about computers, they learn enough react to get a paycheck, but don't have an insatiable curiosity about how the whole computer works (i.e. the "hacker spirit"). Professional developers are not what this thread is about. It's about curious kids, about hackers, and that group does peek at kernel source code (as well as everything else). | | |
| ▲ | astafrig 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | I’m fairly confident that the Venn diagram of (a) nine-year-olds that are playing with a computer and (b) people who claim that access to kernel source code is a prerequisite to “learning about computers” is two circles that are barely touching. |
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| ▲ | pocksuppet 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's something you never need to look at, until suddenly you do and then it's invaluable. Any time you format some data for another system and get a cryptic error code back, looking at the source code becomes invaluable. |
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| ▲ | rafram 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > You can't recompile the kernel or build your own device drivers. I just don’t think this is what, like, nine-year-olds are looking for in a computer. In any case, at least it’s good that they’re starting with macOS over Windows! Puts them on a good path to understanding that POSIX is the One True Paradigm and therefore makes them much more likely to compile their own kernel in the future. | | |
| ▲ | cosmic_cheese 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | I was that kid, and can confirm. My curiosity for all things computer related was boundless, but I eventually tinkered with Linux but only because I’d had been exposed to a *nix style command line from the comfort of an OS X desktop first. By then I had started messing around with code but had only built toys and extremely basic tools and would’ve been lucky to write a moderately functional desktop program using high level libraries (which didn’t happen for several more years). Writing drivers or poking around in kernel code was so far beyond the scope of capabilities at that point that you would’ve had better luck teaching your dog how to knit. I don’t think I could’ve had any chance at doing these things until at least my mid 20s. |
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| ▲ | GalaxyNova 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > They don't have an open source kernel Yes they do in fact, it's called darwin XNU https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu | |
| ▲ | eru 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Eh, qemu runs just fine, so you can peek at Linux kernel code (and recompile and experiment with it) on the Mac just as much as you can on Linux. | |
| ▲ | MBCook 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > then what most young people use daily. Most people are using Windows or phones where that isn’t an option. Yeah you can root or change the OS but that seems outside the spirit of the comment to me. These are Macs. They run Xcode and you can develop apps for your iPhone for free with one. Yeah you need to pay to distribute, but a computer to do it has never been cheaper. |
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