| ▲ | drnick1 4 hours ago |
| > You cannot buy an x86 PC laptop in the $600–700 price range that competes with the MacBook Neo on any metric — performance, display quality, audio quality, or build quality. And certainly not software quality. I would argue the opposite: while Apple hardware is generally excellent, it is the software that leaves to be desired. Apple has also been consistently pushing the industry in a dangerous direction (walled gardens with app stores, excessive power over developers and users). MacOS is also very behind Linux these days in terms of app compatibility (especially games). I won't be buying a Neo before a compatible Linux distro is confirmed. If the stock OS can't be replaced for one reason or another, it's dead on arrival as far as I am concerned. |
|
| ▲ | mmcnl 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Agreed, macOS has hardly improved in the past decade. The only improvements are about ecosystem integration, which I don't really care about. Everything else is stuck in the 2010s. UI has regressed if you ask me. |
| |
| ▲ | madeofpalk 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What improvements has Windows made in the last decade? I think what you're describing is a symptom of modern software development as a whole. | |
| ▲ | jeremycarter 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The tab key doesn't even work consistently across apps and screens. | |
| ▲ | rekabis 8 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ecosystem integration is the shining difference between Apple and others, as it is radically better than any other available implementation. I would argue that ecosystem integration is the only primary consideration that you need to use at the top/first-culling-step of the flowchart to either include or discount Apple products in any purchasing decision. Anything else is secondary, and has workarounds. > UI has regressed Honestly, I love the UI of MacOS 9.2.2 the most. But I don’t have a Time Machine or Elon Musk levels of wealth to chart a different course. And sure, some UI decisions of late have been questionable. That is always the case with non-niche products that don’t have highly focused and largely conforming users. Apple moved out of that category back in the early 2000s, and it is forced to make the same UI tradeoffs that Microsoft makes. I actually don’t mind the modern UI, and aside from a few warts I think they’re going in a very user-friendly direction even if power users feel slighted and abandoned. |
|
|
| ▲ | Aurornis 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > MacOS is also very behind Linux these days in terms of app compatibility (especially games). For the average consumer looking for a $599 MacBook Neo, Mac is the better choice for apps they actually use. Linux can be used for gaming with a lot of titles, but both Mac and Linux are too far behind Windows or consoles to be considered as gaming machines. |
| |
| ▲ | ndr42 17 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I agree in general with your first point. Regarding gaming I disagree: my gaming needs (using a Mac for everything else) are fully satisfied by an additional steam deck, a "console" running linux. Of the top of my head I know only of one game I would like to run it on the steam deck but can't. | |
| ▲ | drnick1 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > but both Mac and Linux are too far behind Windows or consoles to be considered as gaming machines. That's absolutely not true, the vast majority of Windows games now run flawlessly on Linux via Proton. This is especially true for the kind of games you can expect to run on such modest hardware, i.e. not AAA games with kernel-level anticheat. | |
| ▲ | bigyabai an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The Linux gaming runtime is free, much like Windows redistributables. macOS gets singled-out for not having DXVK/Proton, and rightfully so. |
|
|
| ▲ | ezst 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Same here, MacBooks are decent hardware but nowhere near so superior as to justify all the downsides and increasingly dark patterns Apple has been pushing left and right. |
| |
| ▲ | gehsty 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I agree that it isn’t as good as it was but compared to windows (with adds in the start menu, and two different settings menus for a decade as examples) it’s still better. More of a glass of warm cheap whiskey, than a glass of cool ice water in hell. |
|
|
| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
|
| ▲ | pa7ch 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Its a shame there isn't more goodwill for some companies to bankroll a project like asahi linux. Keeping up with reverse engineering apple silicon seems like a very large task. |
| |
| ▲ | nektro 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | asahi is great and i hope they keep going but i can't help but wonder why apple appears to be fully singular in their arm dominance | | |
| ▲ | duskwuff 24 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > i can't help but wonder why apple appears to be fully singular in their arm dominance I have to imagine that a big part of it is the company can plan and act as a single unit. The teams building the CPU, the computers which house that CPU, and the operating system and software that'll run on those computers are all working together, and can plan new features which cut across those boundaries. Other ARM CPU/system manufacturers don't have that advantage. |
| |
| ▲ | gedy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | My hope is they can extend support for the A chips as Asahi Fedora has been splendid for my M1 Pro |
|
|
| ▲ | intrasight 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > it is the software that leaves to be desired That is how I had interpreted "And certainly not software quality" - that the PC not only competes but crushes the Mac. |
|
| ▲ | kimbernator an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| for 99% of consumers, the question is windows vs. macOS, and that's all there is to it. Between the two on a budget-price laptop, it's no competition. |
|
| ▲ | acedTrex 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I buy a macbook for the hardware and tolerate macos. I mostly do terminal stuff so i can largely avoid it. |
|
| ▲ | bean469 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > I won't be buying a Neo before a compatible Linux distro is confirmed. You mean confirmed by Apple? I think that seems unlikely |
| |
|
| ▲ | magic_hamster 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I fully agree. My use case sees a fairly intensive use of MacOS, Linux and Windows, and out of all these, MacOS is the worst experience for me, and that's saying a lot when I prefer to use Windows 11 over MacOS. Macs have very strong advantages but the software, the OS is absolutely infuriating. There's so many annoyances over regular use. You can remedy some of them with third party software (which should have been just system settings), but not all, and by the way some of these cost money for stupidly basic settings. Finally and probably most painful, is Apple's constant push to update your software stack and things just stop working, and they expect you to keep chasing their decisions. You can't really build anything for Apple that's meant to last. It's exhausting. Meanwhile Windows can run programs from 30 years ago and Linux has extremely efficient, beautifully implemented software from all eras probably already installed in your Distro. |
| |
| ▲ | dutchCourage an hour ago | parent [-] | | This depends heavily on your use case. I'd get rid of Windows entirely if I could. For most people I'd say MacOS is the most sane and plug and play experience. The email/browser/note taking experience is better than on Windows, and easier than on Linux. This gets less and less true when you start pluging peripherals and wanting to change the default behavior or use certain apps. But then they're not the target of the Neo. |
|
|
| ▲ | spiderice an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sorry but if "Switch to Linux" is a valid suggestion, then you most likely aren't talking to someone the Neo is marketed to. As good as Linux is, non technical people still should not switch to it. It needs to be MacOS or Windows. |
| |
| ▲ | drnick1 22 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Why? Like many people I don't do serious work on my laptop. It is used for Web browsing, email, and to SSH into other machines. A simple, affordable, but well built machine like the Neo would be ideal for this, on the condition that I can run Linux on it. I currently use an aging XPS in that capacity and the Neo would be quite compelling as a substitute. |
|
|
| ▲ | insane_dreamer 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Most consumers don't use Linux, and MacOS is far ahead of Windows IMO -- and I use all three OSs (and have for 30 years) I disagree that the software leaves to be desired Just an example, I'll take Apple's Office suite (Pages, etc.) over MS Office any day - or LibreOffice. |
|
| ▲ | carabiner 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Is 2026 the year of the linux desktop? Can I update video drivers in Linux without seeing a console? OS X updates them automatically where it's a non-issue. |
| |
| ▲ | Certhas 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Updating video drivers in Ubuntu is so so so much easier than under Windows it's ridiculous. Windows has more drivers for more things, but if Linux has drivers (e.g. you buy a Laptop with Linux support) then driver management is massively easier. I spent god knows how many hours getting the windows drivers for my last self built gaming PC working. Linux I just installed and was done. In reality the Windows experience was also a lot worse than having to drop to the console occasionally. It definitely required more in depth knowledge, even if everything was UI driven... | |
| ▲ | jitl 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's been Year Of The Linux Handheld for gaming since 2022, the best platform to play games is Steam Deck where updates are clicking "Update" in the System panel. You can run either Bazzite or SteamOS on your own hardware, although I haven't tried that. | | |
| ▲ | eldaisfish an hour ago | parent [-] | | The best platform, provided the games you want to play actually work and work well. Many do not, even some popular ones. I own a steam deck and love it, but please, let’s temper the enthusiasm with realism. |
| |
| ▲ | magic_hamster 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In some distros you have rolling updates where it happens for you and you're always on cutting edge. |
|
|
| ▲ | Teever 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| How do you reconcile the fact that that Apple will sell millions of these devices without a compatible Linux distribution shipping for years if ever with your claim about it being DOA? Like sure it’s DOA to you, but in what world does that really matter when it’s going to sell so well? |
| |
| ▲ | bigyabai 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | The same way I reconcile the fact that the 11" Macbook sold millions of devices; consumers don't care. They don't buy Macs as a conscious evaluation of what the device is capable of or how well it was made. Even the 2019 16" Macbook Pro, arguably the worst Mac ever sold, has millions of units floating around in Obsoleteland. Personally I agree with the parent's comment. I used to buy Macs, but nowadays Apple alienates me. I'm one of the millions that don't buy a Mac because the hardware is gimped by arbitrary software limitations. Unless Apple changes that stance, I'm a lost customer. Cupertino has the market share statistics, they know where to find me. |
|