The current bill Trump is pushing for requires "documentary proof of citizenship ", this can actually be very hard. It means an original/certified birth certificate, as well as any subsequent name changes (mostly married women).

This is completely unnecessary.

We establish citizenship, very reliably, at time of registration. This is on of the main jobs of the registrar of voters. They have plenty of time to look up the details of the person and establish citizenship (and intentionally lying in this process is a serious crime).

We then establish identity at the time of voting, again, very reliably.

Intentional voter impersonation or voting when not eligible is vanishingly rare in the US.

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tastyfreeze 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Some states only require a piece of mail and checking a box saying you are legally allowed to vote to register. Then when you checkin to vote the workers are not permitted to ask for ID to prove you are the person you claim to be.

At no point during that process is there presentation of proof of citizenship.

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selectodude 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Any ballots that are cast under same-day registration are cast as provisional and will go through the full verification process if the election is close enough where those ballots are necessary.

Source: actually ran a fucking election precinct. Non-citizens aren’t casting ballots illegally.

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tastyfreeze 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not talking about same day registration. If you are on the rolls and proof of citizenship is not required to register, then how do you as a poll worker know the person on the rolls is a citizen?

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selectodude 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You don't, but also you don't have to. Voter rolls are cross referenced with other sources of data to verify citizenship. ID is required to submit a non-provisional ballot even during early voting if you're not in your designated precinct.

Also just generally it's a severe federal crime to vote illegally, so people who are here illegally aren't out en masse publicly tying their identity to federal felonies.

	▲	lokar 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Exactly, what you give them to apply is not everything they use to verify you.

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zdragnar 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They literally just charged someone in Philadelphia for illegally voting in every federal election since 2008. Non-citizen, ordered deported back in 2000 but still in the country.

There's not been a reliable audit to show the extent to which this happens (probably not enough to affect even local elections), but to say that it isn't happening is just a lie.

	▲	brendoelfrendo 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		One of voter ID's biggest advocates, the Heritage Foundation, could only find 68 cases of non-citizens voting since 1980. Even if all of them are repeat offenders, that's a few hundred bad ballots out of billions cast. As you said, it is also possible to catch these people. Our election integrity is not threatened by non-citizen voters. It just doesn't happen on the scale that Republicans insist it must be happening, and the fact that they keep repeating it doesn't make it true, it means that they have an agenda that benefits from making you think it's true.
	▲	selectodude 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Ok? And yet, they were caught. Dude's a shithead, swung zero elections, and got caught. They catch people all the time voting illegally. I would make a strong guess that they counted zero of his ballots as they were all provisional. He should go to jail and yet his existence is not proof that there are hoards of African deportees voting in state and federal elections.

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lokar 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That is the documentation they ask for in the application. It's enough for them to understand who you claim to be. They then consult their own records to establish if that identity is eligible to vote. Then finally, on Election Day, you show you are that person.

At that last part, Election Day identification, is not even that important, since the same person can't vote twice. So if you impersonate another person that will be quickly detected. It's not a useful strategy to alter the outcome of an election.

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meroes 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In that process there's no proof, but every state manages voter roles which your provisional information will then go through a further process.

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giancarlostoro 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I have cousins from Cuba and Venezuela, hearing this sort of information is rather alarming to them to say the least.

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expedition32 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Trump expects half of the US to get a passport in the next 6 months.

These kind of fundamental changes require years of preparation. Either Trump is an incompetent moron or he has ulterior motives.

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bilbo0s 3 hours ago | parent [-]

He's trying to prevent poor people from voting.

Requiring poor people to pay a hefty fee, which they probably don't have, to get a passport seems a fairly competent way to go about making sure poor people don't vote to me.

If I don't want poor people voting, then attaching a fee to voting doesn't mean I'm incompetent. It means I'm smart enough to know poor people don't have money.

By the way, I think all of this is horrible. Everyone should be equal before the law and should have their vote count without having to pay for that right. I'm just pointing out that this is a really good way to eliminate the vote of the poor.

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superxpro12 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I hate that we get so caught up on applying labels to the disenfranchisement, rather than completely and forcefully rejecting any attempts to disenfranchise any voter.

In a functioning democracy, voting is sacred. It must be treated as THEE core, fundamental right of every person under its care.

To violate this sacred tenet should be immediate grounds for exile. If you can't respect the ONE CORE tenet, or are incapable of, then there is not space for you in this society.

	▲	tartuffe78 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It's an unconstitutional bill, but if all three branches of government hold it up it's going to be chaos (intentionally) come election time.