| ▲ | sidkshatriya 3 hours ago |
| 14.4 is a maintenance release. If you're installing FreeBSD today, use 15.0 Why FreeBSD ? - Well manicured OS, excellent docs. More performant than OpenBSD in every way and approaches Linux performance in some areas (e.g. Networking) - FreeBSD tends to have fewer features in almost all areas compared to Linux which makes it more approachable and more difficult to mess up. - Though it has fewer features, it still has a lot of features -- many big companies (Netflix most famously) still use it today for critical functions. - FreeBSD Kernel and Userland developed together -- it has got that undefined "cohesive" feel - Has less layers of abstraction than Linux, gets the job done. Because there are fewer layers it's easier to understand what is going on and potentially easier to fix. - FreeBSD is great if you want to learn pf, zfs, ... - Worth your while if you are bored of the Linux monoculture and just want to try something a bit different (but not tooo different) - Changes slowly, so good for setting up on a server that you want to just leave running without too much maintenance - Will increase your Linux skills because diversity always helps the human brain - Very simple daemon configuration via /etc/rc.conf - FreeBSD `bectl` controlled zfs boot environments are just so life changing and amazing.
(this is possible via snapper on Linux + btrfs but needs complex installation and is not so integrated). - FreeBSD will accept (smallish) PRs via GitHub if you find a minor bug. Otherwise it uses the decent Phabricator interface at https://reviews.freebsd.org . This is much better IMHO than the mailing list workflow of Linux. The barriers to contribution are lesser than Linux !! - FreeBSD still has that warm fuzzy small "community" feel which I like |
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| ▲ | alwillis 18 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| > and approaches Linux performance in some areas (e.g. Networking) FreeBSD has been the gold standard for networking features and performance for decades; not sure I'd agree. > FreeBSD tends to have fewer features in almost all areas compared to Linux I'm not sure FreeBSD has fewer features in total but on a new install, many of them are turned off; it doesn’t mandate what should be running. There's a lot beneath the surface to get into. > FreeBSD Kernel and Userland developed together -- it has got that undefined "cohesive" feel Definitely! It feels like a single entity rather than a collection of components. > Has less layers of abstraction than Linux, gets the job done. Because there are fewer layers it's easier to understand what is going on and potentially easier to fix. Agreed. You can tell the FreeBSD developers attitude is to compose features using what the operating system already offers instead of creating new things from scratch. > Very simple daemon configuration via /etc/rc.conf I'd say in a good way; quoting from "Service Management: init vs systemd" [1]: The comparison is best understood structurally. [FreeBSD](https://vivianvoss.net/dictionary#freebsd)'s init system is composed of precisely five elements: shell scripts, one library, one configuration file, one ordering utility, and the shell itself. Each is inspectable, replaceable, and debuggable with tools that predate the engineer using them. [systemd](https://vivianvoss.net/dictionary#systemd) is composed of, well, rather more. The binary count stood at 69 in 2013, which prompted some concern. By 2024, it had doubled. The project absorbed fifteen distinct tools that previously existed as independent, single-purpose programs, each maintained by specialists who understood them intimately. [1]: https://vivianvoss.net/blog/init-vs-systemd |
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| ▲ | sidkshatriya 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >> and approaches Linux performance in some areas (e.g. Networking) > FreeBSD has been the gold standard for networking features and performance for decades; not sure I'd agree. This is the accepted wisdom. But reality on the ground is that Linux has probably surpassed FreeBSD in this domain too. With bpf programs making dynamic packet steering decisions in kernel space, io_uring, support for every hardware networking enhancement under the sun and $$$ being spent by everybody on the Linux networking stack (to speed up AI training or supercomputer clusters for example) I doubt a highly tuned Linux box will be slower than the equivalent FreeBSD one. (P.S. I'm not a networking expert. This is my assessment though. Someone well versed with networking on both FreeBSD and Linux should confirm on this !) |
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| ▲ | krylon 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > this is possible via snapper on Linux + btrfs but needs complex installation and is not so integrated FWIW, openSUSE defaults to btrfs on the root filesystem and uses snapper in a very similar manner to zfs boot environments on FreeBSD. I don't have a lot of experience with the latter, but I have been running openSUSE Tumbleweed on my desktop and primary laptop for about 10 years now, and the btrfs+snapper arrangement has worked pretty well for me. (I also run FreeBSD on my home server and just did the upgrade to 15.0 this weekend, which left me wondering why I had procrastinated this upgrade for so long. It went perfectly fine.) |
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| ▲ | drewg123 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If you're installing FreeBSD today, use 15.0 Or just run -current in production, like we do. See https://people.freebsd.org/~gallatin/talks/OpenFest2023.pdf Or https://papers.freebsd.org/2019/fosdem/looney-netflix_and_fr... |
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| ▲ | throw0101d 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Or just run -current in production, like we do.[0] If you develop, it's probably best to do that against current [1], but if I'm running a web, mail, file, database, etc, server there is IMHO very little advantage to doing so. Most folks aren't trying to push >400Gbps. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4TZxj-Dq7s [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ0mvmZtbaY | |
| ▲ | asveikau 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Seems like the reason is to catch new bugs, fix them and upstream the fixes promptly, with a team of 10 doing that. Sounds awesome, but I could see other people just passively consuming stable. | |
| ▲ | craftkiller 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | While I also use -current, I don't think this is good advice to the kinds of people who don't know if they should be running 14.4 or 15.0. There are caveats to running -current (for example, you need to disable the built-in debugging stuff on -current to get decent performance but the debugging stuff is already disabled on actual releases), so I think for new people it's best to recommend they use the latest release (15.0) and they can discover -current when they are more familiar with FreeBSD. | |
| ▲ | sidkshatriya 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, FreeBSD current is quite usable. It's fun to start using the new features as they are added to kernel and userland immediately ! |
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| ▲ | jedberg an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > and approaches Linux performance in some areas (e.g. Networking) I started using FreeBSD 26 years ago when I worked for Sendmail, who had a couple of core committers on staff or staff-adjacent. Back then the refrain was "it can't do nearly as much as Linux, but what it does do it's much better than Linux". And specifically it was known that if you wanted the best possible networking stack, FreeBSD was the choice to make (And also why Netflix uses it, for the networking stack). All this to say, is it true that Linux now has better network performance, or did you mistype that? |
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| ▲ | sidkshatriya 30 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The networking subsystem is probably the place where FreeBSD is most competitive with Linux. Linux just supports so much more hardware capabilities and fancy ways of doing things (e.g. io_uring, bpf logic in kernel etc.) that an expertly setup and tuned Linux system will probably exceed the networking speed of FreeBSD and provide more features while doing so. I'm not a networking expert by any means but this is what my understanding is. I use FreeBSD for mostly for taste and the other reasons I outlined in my detailed answer above even though Linux is superior performance wise. |
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| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | pisikesipelgas 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I heard, that BSD is dying... |
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| ▲ | linguae an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I love the BSDs; I have the most experience with FreeBSD, I regularly use macOS, and lately I’ve been learning NetBSD due to its rumpkernel. With that said, with the decline of commercial Unix and the dominance of Linux, POSIX, in my opinion, has become less important, and in its place Linux seems to be the standard. I prefer the BSDs to Linux due to its design and documentation, but Linux has better hardware support, and the FOSS ecosystem, especially the desktop, is increasingly embracing Linuxisms such as Wayland and systemd. The FOSS BSD ecosystems are too small to counter the Linuxization of the Unix ecosystem, and I feel that Apple does not pay much attention to the BSD side of macOS these days. I don’t expect the BSDs to die, but I do believe they’ll need to find ways to adapt to an increasingly Linux-dominated FOSS ecosystem. | |
| ▲ | sidkshatriya 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | NetBSD - situation does not seem that good. Project feels less active now. OpenBSD - has a fanatical band of security obsessed users. Not going away anytime soon. FreeBSD - It chugs along. Why is FreeBSD worth trying out ? See my reply above. | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Love OpenBSD, it is my main work and personal OS. Doesn't rank the best in performance, but certainly good enough for my uses (and many others, I'd guess). The thing I like is that almost everything I've invested in learning about it over the past 15 years still applies. Stuff that does change, or is added, tends to be done in a way that is sensible and consistent with established patterns and practices. Linux, not so much. | |
| ▲ | user3939382 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | NetBSD has their new npf firewall which is quite nice. Of all the options their internal architecture is the cleanest. It gets less fanfare than the others because it has less drivers, although even that is partially due to a commitment against binary blobs. FreeBSD is more practical but for example you find the config files scattered about the file system whereas in NetBSD they’re always exactly where I expect. SDF.org has a great NetBSD system if anyone wants to try it out. |
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| ▲ | bigstrat2003 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Has Netcraft confirmed it? | |
| ▲ | riley_dog 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Whenever people use unnecessary commas like this, I hear nothing but William Shatner in my mind. | |
| ▲ | bell-cot 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | "BSD is dying" has been a popular (at least with kids and trolls and Linux fans) jeer for the past three-ish decades. The reality of it is kinda like "Buffalo Bills will win the Superbowl this year". | |
| ▲ | krylon 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | ...just as soon as Linux takes over the desktop! ;-) |
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| ▲ | ux266478 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's also worth mentioning that FreeBSD lives outside of Redhat's influence. If you find yourself lamenting the direction Linux is moving in, FreeBSD remains an attractive escape hatch. It's not perfect (rc.d is definitely not as nice as runit, it's still focusing on LVM filesystems for the future, last I tried to use OSS4 it had some issues), but I would be straight up lying to you if I implied these weren't kind of trivial in the grand scheme. |
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| ▲ | dismalaf 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ish. Most FreeBSD installs still make use of stuff like Wayland and a lot of Linux parts. | | |
| ▲ | justin66 an hour ago | parent [-] | | > a lot of Linux parts Anything outside of the stuff required to make a graphical desktop work? | | |
| ▲ | dismalaf 29 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Anything outside of the stuff required to make a graphical desktop work? That's kinda big, no? |
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| ▲ | compass_copium 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| >Will increase your Linux skills because diversity always helps the human brain Is this still true, given how much runs through systemd now? I thought about trying out FreeBSD last time I got a new computer, but decided on sticking with Debian to help skill building on other Linux systems |
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| ▲ | sidkshatriya 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Diversity of programming languages, operating systems, cultures, human languages, countries, music etc. always gives a fresh perspective I've found. You may go back to what you prefer at the end but it gives you learnings that are at a "higher level" :-) > Is this still true, given how much runs through systemd now? Yes, still true. On FreeBSD you will realize what complexity systemd might be hiding from you and what additional features it provides. BTW I don't actually like rc init on FreeBSD that much ! I feel that rc.d can learn a lot from more modern init systems like systemd, dinit etc. I don't like reading highly complex rc scripts !! |
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