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0x3f 6 hours ago

> No, it doesn't! It's 2 to 10 times more!

It's literally not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...

> Belgium 7.3

> Slovenia 7.0

> US 6.9

> France 5.8

Never mind all the other countries that do have presumption of guilt, which are also comparable in per-mile road deaths.

And the ones with presumption but which _are_ 10x worse.

Allowing the presumption is very clearly not well-correlated with safety.

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crote 6 hours ago | parent [-]

You are conveniently leaving out some European countries, such as Norway being at 3.0 per 1B km.

You are also conveniently leaving it the per-capita figures, with US being at 14.2 per 100k while countries like Norway, Sweden, and Finland being at 2.x, and Europe as a while being at 6.7.

So sure, "10x more" might be an exaggeration, but "2x more" is fairly accurate and even a claim of "7x more" is arguable.

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0x3f 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I haven't conveniently left out anything. I wrote my previous comments intentionally, and specified which statistic I was talking about. If you misread it, that's on you.

I used this statistic because yours is like saying the US is richer than Switzerland, if you don't divide by the number of people. Pretty irrelevant.

There is no point comparing a country that drives everywhere with a country that doesn't using a metric that doesn't account for this difference.

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Symbiote 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You named the two European countries higher than the USA, and ignored the 12 that are lower.

	▲	0x3f 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I presented the US' position in the list with the surrounding European countries, both higher and lower, to show that it sits in the cluster. It can be at the edge of the cluster, that's fine. The other person was claiming a 2-10x difference and, more importantly, blaming it on the 'havoc' that occurs without the presumption of guilt. The countries I listed have that presumption, and yet have comparable rates.

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antonvs 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> There is no point comparing a country that drives everywhere with a country that doesn't

Unless the argument is that driving everywhere is a stupid and irresponsible way to operate a society.

	▲	0x3f 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Perhaps but seems irrelevant to a discussion that's around the question of policy as it relates to people who are already driving.