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raffael_de 3 hours ago

> Moderators are a downright scare resource.

if you restrict moderation to stuff like gore and porn, then you don't need that many moderators.

> When you let people spew hateful things you drive away the people you want in the community

can't people just unfollow or block others whose opinions they don't want to see?

> Then there's the fact that it takes far more energy to refute bullshit than to spew it

there is no obligation to refute bullshit to begin with. it's a personal choice about how to spend your time.

> and this asymmetry means that "just let them speak" means the toxic liars win.

what's there to win? there is nothing to win for anybody. there's only something to lose and that's time.

t0bia_s 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

if you restrict moderation to stuff like gore and porn, then you don't need that many moderators.

On mastodon, porn-like content is mostly welcomed. Especially with anime or fox characters. Not sure why.

Arainach 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> what's there to win? there is nothing to win for anybody.

There are ideological battles to be fought by all sorts of parties - convincing groups to hate each other, to support or oppose the governments in power, to spread division and destroy societies.

There are trolls who consider it a battle to be won, and the more they succeed the more everyone else leaves the platform.

The party currently in control of the United States is there largely due to people who were fed divisive narratives (often in online channels) to make them hate other groups and a significant number of them consider it more important to "own the libs" and "hurt the right people" than to have the government actually improve their own circumstances. So yes, there's absolutely things to be won.

raffael_de 2 hours ago | parent [-]

most of those dynamics are basically just in your head. for example: why would someone care if a troll considers a "battle" won?

Arainach 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I listed some of the real world consequences already. Allowing disinformation to spread and assuming that people will figure out what's wrong on their own does not scale and does not work.

handoflixue 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> if you restrict moderation to stuff like gore and porn, then you don't need that many moderators.

Have you ever been involved with moderating even a small subreddit or Discord server? I'm on a server with one moderator and it routinely gets spammed while the guy is asleep.

> can't people just unfollow or block others whose opinions they don't want to see?

How do I block people BEFORE seeing the opinions I don't want to see? Trolls can roll up a new account for every single post they make, if they want to.

> there is no obligation to refute bullshit to begin with.

No, but if you're neither blocking nor refuting it, then your community is going to quickly become majority bullshit.

raffael_de 2 hours ago | parent [-]

it seems to me that the networking design is flawed. just to give a simple example: whitelisting (only seeing content of friends and followees) versus blacklisting (seeing everything ranked by an algorithm). wouldn't whitelisting already solve most of those issues? that would actually be my preferred modus anyway.

Arainach an hour ago | parent [-]

No, because that puts the effort of fighting bad actors on everyone. It means that every day you have new trolls spewing hate in your comments, and that your users have to constantly keep blocking trolls who follow them (and who recruit other trolls to join them) until they get tired and leave the platform.

This isn't an academic debate, we've been seeing this play out online for at least 30 years. Probably longer - I wasn't around for Usenet's heyday but it wasn't immune either.

GOD_Over_Djinn a minute ago | parent [-]

You would see comments from random trolls under a whitelist model. You would only see stuff from your friends.