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the_wolo 2 hours ago

If so, good for them, good for the humanity, but what we actually must do is to ~~expropriate~~ ~~socialize~~ democratize the means of production.

radu_floricica 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Poe's law? Can't really tell, with the internet these days. Things are so polarized that people talk from and to their tribe and the message is often understood to be obvious.

Anyways, in case you're serious: there is a famous thought experiment about healthcare: should a hospital administrator approve a complex and expensive treatment to save a 7 year old girl, with a 100% success probability? Or more to the point: is approving this a "good" act, or a "bad" act? The unintuitive answer is that it depends on the opportunity cost long term, and the math is far from obvious. The quick answer is often "not even wrong" - it simply ignores a lot of facts down the line. The same cash can be used very boringly to do maintenance or to buy a piece of life saving equipment.

And it gets very dirty very fast. The easy version is pay for the operation vs buy an MRI machine - in this case you can at least compare apples to apples, if you squint - an MRI machine also saves lives. But if the alternative is renovating a waiting room, you're really off the deep end. Because doing it one time it's an obvious decision: just save the life. And it's not even bad as a general policy: have waiting rooms be a bit dusty, if this means spending more money on treatments. But... how much to cut, exactly? And then you have second order effects: throwing a moderate amount to waiting rooms can make them look a lot better, while having it linger in disrepair can make people actually avoid the hospital (if they can't even paint the walls, why would you trust them with your life?).

And all of this is assuming the hospital admin actually has mental bandwidth and latitude to make this decision. In practice, he's looking at the kid's mom when he has to turn her down because the operation money would pay for renovating a whole hospital wing. And the mom is an influencer with a large following.

> democratize the means of production

This means having humans make such decisions, and even worse, it means a committee or a mob will make such decisions. Zero skin in the game, all vibes and feelings. Some girls will get saved, but I've seen how hospitals look in such a system, and it's not good.

To note: the US system may or may not be "democratized", but it managed to have exactly the same flaws - most decisions are taken by humans in a bureaucracy. The government simply wrote the rules then outsourced the bureaucracy and the blame to private corporations.

onion2k an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In this case (and probably lots of others) the amount of resources needed to make an impact on the problem means that it would never work if the funding was decided through a democratic process. As soon as a committee of people are deciding to where to put resources they decide to share it between a number of worthy causes, and that means none of them get the bulk of what's available. If you have something that's percieved to be a relatively small problem by people it isn't directly impacting every day, that needs a lot of resources to fix it, then it's never getting done.

(Tech-related side note: This is why companies build mountains of tech debt unless there's a former engineer running the show.)

CMay 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

the reason your encouraged approach tends to produce poor results, is that you increase the distance between the decisions that need to be made and the people who understand how to make the decision or whether a decision is even valuable to make.

it is basically an unsustainable structure. there's not much value to replacing one structure which you might think is unsustainable with something equally or less sustainable that also produces worse results anyway.

another issue is that it can dilute responsibility and someone will take more assertive control anyway which further reduces the quality of decision making. someone still has to enact and enforce the decisions, so whoever does the enacting has to obey and whoever does the enforcing has to enforce the right thing. it's easy to end up with a bunch of people influencing things for their own reasons which have nothing to do with maximizing the production of good results.